On a tidally locked planet, would time be quantized?How would people tell time if it was always day?How would rogue planet civilization track the passage of time?On a planet without seasons, how would people track years?Do different star systems experience time differently?Would it be possible for there to be a life form that has a time symmetric life cycle?How survivors should measure time on tidal locked planet?What would be the possiblity of galaxy sized planet of sorts for a table top roleplaying gameWhat's the timeline for developing a broader view of time?Communicating unknown length of time without measurementsThe perception of time in a tidally-locked planetHow to integrate magic with nature, avoid the “our world with magic tacked on” problem?

putting logo on same line but after title, latex

Can I still be respawned if I die by falling off the map?

Is there an injective, monotonically increasing, strictly concave function from the reals, to the reals?

Is this toilet slogan correct usage of the English language?

Mixing PEX brands

What exact color does ozone gas have?

What are the balance implications behind making invisible things auto-hide?

Open a doc from terminal, but not by its name

Do the primes contain an infinite almost arithmetic progression?

Limits and Infinite Integration by Parts

It grows, but water kills it

Angel of Condemnation - Exile creature with second ability

What is the highest possible scrabble score for placing a single tile

Hero deduces identity of a killer

Is aluminum electrical wire used on aircraft?

Why "had" in "[something] we would have made had we used [something]"?

Is there a RAID 0 Equivalent for RAM?

Why does the Sun have different day lengths, but not the gas giants?

Does the UK parliament need to pass secondary legislation to accept the Article 50 extension

How should I respond when I lied about my education and the company finds out through background check?

Quoting Keynes in a lecture

How do apertures which seem too large to physically fit work?

Does an advisor owe his/her student anything? Will an advisor keep a PhD student only out of pity?

Why is the "ls" command showing permissions of files in a FAT32 partition?



On a tidally locked planet, would time be quantized?


How would people tell time if it was always day?How would rogue planet civilization track the passage of time?On a planet without seasons, how would people track years?Do different star systems experience time differently?Would it be possible for there to be a life form that has a time symmetric life cycle?How survivors should measure time on tidal locked planet?What would be the possiblity of galaxy sized planet of sorts for a table top roleplaying gameWhat's the timeline for developing a broader view of time?Communicating unknown length of time without measurementsThe perception of time in a tidally-locked planetHow to integrate magic with nature, avoid the “our world with magic tacked on” problem?













4












$begingroup$


Assume a planet that always presents one side to the sun. No moons. The orbit of the planet around the star is essentially spherical, very minor and undetectable aberrations. The orbital period of the planet around the star is in multiples of the lifetimes of the sentient beings. That is, no sentient being lives long enough to go through one complete rotation.



NOTE: this question is not about HOW this would happen, it is to be taken as a given that it DID happen.



A sentient species evolves on this planet.



There are no day/night cycles, no seasons, and no cyclical changes in the sky - it would be constantly different throughout one's lifespan. No repeats. Life evolved without any natural circadian rhythm. Plants grew and died independently of any cycle. No defined growing season. A plant could sprout at any time, and die at any time. No menstrual cycles, no estrus cycles in animals. There would be no biological basis on which to establish any. Life would have evolved without any concept of cyclical time passage. As far as life was concerned, everything was eternally homogenous, time wise. Nothing happened in unison.



To these sentient beings, the passage of time is irrelevant. They have no way to compare the passage of time between people. Heart beats are different, respiration is different, one's pace in walking is different. The interval to travel from one point to another is different. It is human experience that what seems like a long period of time to one person is a short period of time for another person. The beings get to where they are going when they get there, without reference to anyone else's travels. They eat when they need to, irrespective of how long it has taken between meals (think of a snake, that can go for very long periods between meals, depending on how big the last meal was). Gestations are never the same length, so even if two beings got pregnant at the same time, the deliveries would never likely be at the same time. Two objects released from a height at the same moment would be observed to arrive at the ground at the same moment, but there would be no indication that if dropped at some other moment they would arrive at the ground in the same time as these two, without some form of quantized time.



Many of our 'Laws of Physics' require time to be quantized. Humans, of course, had to quantize time before we could develop any theories based on the quantization of time. This is a straightforward 'chicken or egg' thing.



It seems to me that if Galileo had no preconceived idea of the measure of the passage of time (through the passage of seasons, day/night cycles, etc) he would not have been able to discover that the periodicity of a pendulum was constant. Depending on his state of mind, sometimes the swing would appear to take forever, sometimes it would appear to be shorter.



It also seems to me that Newton relied on a distinct concept of the passage of quantized time before hand, in order to develop many of his Laws. (The action/reaction thing, and gravitational attraction thing, would be valid, just not quantized as to the passage of time).



Building structural integrity and engineering calculations for stresses have no time component to them, if built by 'Rule of Thumb' (We built the last one this thick, and it is still standing. The other one was built thinner, and it collapsed.)



If this sentient species had no experience that the passage of time was measurable and periodic, would they ever develop a method to quantize it? Would they ever TRY to quantize it, if there was nothing in their environment that was consistently and repeatedly cyclic, that they needed to or even that they could consistently measure? What would that quantization look like?



I submit that this question is NOT the same as this, as many of the answers pertain to some form of naturally occurring cycle observable by humans, and /or are based on human circadian rhythms, which are not experienced by this species. This life form evolved without any ability to determine periodic time spans. Also, that question asks what would they use to quantize time, this asks what would their method of quantizing time look like? Would they even understand that time could be quantized into absolute divisions, that were equivalent between people and between events?



A further corollary question will be something along the lines of 'What would the Laws of Physics look like without time being quantized in the same constant periodic way that humans have quantized it?' But that is NOT in the scope of this question.










share|improve this question











$endgroup$







  • 3




    $begingroup$
    "Many of our 'Laws of Physics' require time to be quantized": actually, as far as we know time is not quantized. (Neither are space and energy.) Action, electric charge, spin etc. are quantized. I suppose that you mean "measured". But quantization and measurement are two very different things. For example, why wouldn't they use sandglasses? As for "nothing in their environment that was consistently and repeatedly cyclic", don't they have pendulums? Or even hearts for that matter?
    $endgroup$
    – AlexP
    3 hours ago







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @AlexP I mean quantized, as in assigned a quantity, as in time is measured in seconds. As in 'verb (used with object), quan·tized, quan·tiz·ing. Mathematics , Physics . to restrict (a variable quantity) to discrete values rather than to a continuous set of values.' from dictionary.com/browse/quantized As in the thing you have to do BEFORE you can measure it.
    $endgroup$
    – Justin Thyme the Second
    3 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    That is exactly my point: as far as we know, time does not consist of an integer number of indivisible moments. It does have a continuous set of values. 1 second, 1.2 seconds, 1.23 seconds, 1.234 seconds...
    $endgroup$
    – AlexP
    3 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    I would say that a second is a second is a second. An integer number. Used to calculate speed, velocity. and even pay checks. The concept of quantization time came a long time before the concept of quantum mechanics and quantum theory.
    $endgroup$
    – Justin Thyme the Second
    3 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    Yes, and? A meter is a meter is a meter. An ampere is an ampere is an ampere. Those are units of measurement, essentially arbitrary. We have nothing in our environment suggesting that space is quantized (and as far as we know, it isn't), but that has not stopped us from chosing an arbitrary stick and calling it one foot, one one pace, or one meter and then measuring lengths with it. It usually happens that lengths are not an integer number of feet (or paces, or meters). Same with time. There is nothing in nature which takes an integer number of seconds...
    $endgroup$
    – AlexP
    3 hours ago
















4












$begingroup$


Assume a planet that always presents one side to the sun. No moons. The orbit of the planet around the star is essentially spherical, very minor and undetectable aberrations. The orbital period of the planet around the star is in multiples of the lifetimes of the sentient beings. That is, no sentient being lives long enough to go through one complete rotation.



NOTE: this question is not about HOW this would happen, it is to be taken as a given that it DID happen.



A sentient species evolves on this planet.



There are no day/night cycles, no seasons, and no cyclical changes in the sky - it would be constantly different throughout one's lifespan. No repeats. Life evolved without any natural circadian rhythm. Plants grew and died independently of any cycle. No defined growing season. A plant could sprout at any time, and die at any time. No menstrual cycles, no estrus cycles in animals. There would be no biological basis on which to establish any. Life would have evolved without any concept of cyclical time passage. As far as life was concerned, everything was eternally homogenous, time wise. Nothing happened in unison.



To these sentient beings, the passage of time is irrelevant. They have no way to compare the passage of time between people. Heart beats are different, respiration is different, one's pace in walking is different. The interval to travel from one point to another is different. It is human experience that what seems like a long period of time to one person is a short period of time for another person. The beings get to where they are going when they get there, without reference to anyone else's travels. They eat when they need to, irrespective of how long it has taken between meals (think of a snake, that can go for very long periods between meals, depending on how big the last meal was). Gestations are never the same length, so even if two beings got pregnant at the same time, the deliveries would never likely be at the same time. Two objects released from a height at the same moment would be observed to arrive at the ground at the same moment, but there would be no indication that if dropped at some other moment they would arrive at the ground in the same time as these two, without some form of quantized time.



Many of our 'Laws of Physics' require time to be quantized. Humans, of course, had to quantize time before we could develop any theories based on the quantization of time. This is a straightforward 'chicken or egg' thing.



It seems to me that if Galileo had no preconceived idea of the measure of the passage of time (through the passage of seasons, day/night cycles, etc) he would not have been able to discover that the periodicity of a pendulum was constant. Depending on his state of mind, sometimes the swing would appear to take forever, sometimes it would appear to be shorter.



It also seems to me that Newton relied on a distinct concept of the passage of quantized time before hand, in order to develop many of his Laws. (The action/reaction thing, and gravitational attraction thing, would be valid, just not quantized as to the passage of time).



Building structural integrity and engineering calculations for stresses have no time component to them, if built by 'Rule of Thumb' (We built the last one this thick, and it is still standing. The other one was built thinner, and it collapsed.)



If this sentient species had no experience that the passage of time was measurable and periodic, would they ever develop a method to quantize it? Would they ever TRY to quantize it, if there was nothing in their environment that was consistently and repeatedly cyclic, that they needed to or even that they could consistently measure? What would that quantization look like?



I submit that this question is NOT the same as this, as many of the answers pertain to some form of naturally occurring cycle observable by humans, and /or are based on human circadian rhythms, which are not experienced by this species. This life form evolved without any ability to determine periodic time spans. Also, that question asks what would they use to quantize time, this asks what would their method of quantizing time look like? Would they even understand that time could be quantized into absolute divisions, that were equivalent between people and between events?



A further corollary question will be something along the lines of 'What would the Laws of Physics look like without time being quantized in the same constant periodic way that humans have quantized it?' But that is NOT in the scope of this question.










share|improve this question











$endgroup$







  • 3




    $begingroup$
    "Many of our 'Laws of Physics' require time to be quantized": actually, as far as we know time is not quantized. (Neither are space and energy.) Action, electric charge, spin etc. are quantized. I suppose that you mean "measured". But quantization and measurement are two very different things. For example, why wouldn't they use sandglasses? As for "nothing in their environment that was consistently and repeatedly cyclic", don't they have pendulums? Or even hearts for that matter?
    $endgroup$
    – AlexP
    3 hours ago







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @AlexP I mean quantized, as in assigned a quantity, as in time is measured in seconds. As in 'verb (used with object), quan·tized, quan·tiz·ing. Mathematics , Physics . to restrict (a variable quantity) to discrete values rather than to a continuous set of values.' from dictionary.com/browse/quantized As in the thing you have to do BEFORE you can measure it.
    $endgroup$
    – Justin Thyme the Second
    3 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    That is exactly my point: as far as we know, time does not consist of an integer number of indivisible moments. It does have a continuous set of values. 1 second, 1.2 seconds, 1.23 seconds, 1.234 seconds...
    $endgroup$
    – AlexP
    3 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    I would say that a second is a second is a second. An integer number. Used to calculate speed, velocity. and even pay checks. The concept of quantization time came a long time before the concept of quantum mechanics and quantum theory.
    $endgroup$
    – Justin Thyme the Second
    3 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    Yes, and? A meter is a meter is a meter. An ampere is an ampere is an ampere. Those are units of measurement, essentially arbitrary. We have nothing in our environment suggesting that space is quantized (and as far as we know, it isn't), but that has not stopped us from chosing an arbitrary stick and calling it one foot, one one pace, or one meter and then measuring lengths with it. It usually happens that lengths are not an integer number of feet (or paces, or meters). Same with time. There is nothing in nature which takes an integer number of seconds...
    $endgroup$
    – AlexP
    3 hours ago














4












4








4





$begingroup$


Assume a planet that always presents one side to the sun. No moons. The orbit of the planet around the star is essentially spherical, very minor and undetectable aberrations. The orbital period of the planet around the star is in multiples of the lifetimes of the sentient beings. That is, no sentient being lives long enough to go through one complete rotation.



NOTE: this question is not about HOW this would happen, it is to be taken as a given that it DID happen.



A sentient species evolves on this planet.



There are no day/night cycles, no seasons, and no cyclical changes in the sky - it would be constantly different throughout one's lifespan. No repeats. Life evolved without any natural circadian rhythm. Plants grew and died independently of any cycle. No defined growing season. A plant could sprout at any time, and die at any time. No menstrual cycles, no estrus cycles in animals. There would be no biological basis on which to establish any. Life would have evolved without any concept of cyclical time passage. As far as life was concerned, everything was eternally homogenous, time wise. Nothing happened in unison.



To these sentient beings, the passage of time is irrelevant. They have no way to compare the passage of time between people. Heart beats are different, respiration is different, one's pace in walking is different. The interval to travel from one point to another is different. It is human experience that what seems like a long period of time to one person is a short period of time for another person. The beings get to where they are going when they get there, without reference to anyone else's travels. They eat when they need to, irrespective of how long it has taken between meals (think of a snake, that can go for very long periods between meals, depending on how big the last meal was). Gestations are never the same length, so even if two beings got pregnant at the same time, the deliveries would never likely be at the same time. Two objects released from a height at the same moment would be observed to arrive at the ground at the same moment, but there would be no indication that if dropped at some other moment they would arrive at the ground in the same time as these two, without some form of quantized time.



Many of our 'Laws of Physics' require time to be quantized. Humans, of course, had to quantize time before we could develop any theories based on the quantization of time. This is a straightforward 'chicken or egg' thing.



It seems to me that if Galileo had no preconceived idea of the measure of the passage of time (through the passage of seasons, day/night cycles, etc) he would not have been able to discover that the periodicity of a pendulum was constant. Depending on his state of mind, sometimes the swing would appear to take forever, sometimes it would appear to be shorter.



It also seems to me that Newton relied on a distinct concept of the passage of quantized time before hand, in order to develop many of his Laws. (The action/reaction thing, and gravitational attraction thing, would be valid, just not quantized as to the passage of time).



Building structural integrity and engineering calculations for stresses have no time component to them, if built by 'Rule of Thumb' (We built the last one this thick, and it is still standing. The other one was built thinner, and it collapsed.)



If this sentient species had no experience that the passage of time was measurable and periodic, would they ever develop a method to quantize it? Would they ever TRY to quantize it, if there was nothing in their environment that was consistently and repeatedly cyclic, that they needed to or even that they could consistently measure? What would that quantization look like?



I submit that this question is NOT the same as this, as many of the answers pertain to some form of naturally occurring cycle observable by humans, and /or are based on human circadian rhythms, which are not experienced by this species. This life form evolved without any ability to determine periodic time spans. Also, that question asks what would they use to quantize time, this asks what would their method of quantizing time look like? Would they even understand that time could be quantized into absolute divisions, that were equivalent between people and between events?



A further corollary question will be something along the lines of 'What would the Laws of Physics look like without time being quantized in the same constant periodic way that humans have quantized it?' But that is NOT in the scope of this question.










share|improve this question











$endgroup$




Assume a planet that always presents one side to the sun. No moons. The orbit of the planet around the star is essentially spherical, very minor and undetectable aberrations. The orbital period of the planet around the star is in multiples of the lifetimes of the sentient beings. That is, no sentient being lives long enough to go through one complete rotation.



NOTE: this question is not about HOW this would happen, it is to be taken as a given that it DID happen.



A sentient species evolves on this planet.



There are no day/night cycles, no seasons, and no cyclical changes in the sky - it would be constantly different throughout one's lifespan. No repeats. Life evolved without any natural circadian rhythm. Plants grew and died independently of any cycle. No defined growing season. A plant could sprout at any time, and die at any time. No menstrual cycles, no estrus cycles in animals. There would be no biological basis on which to establish any. Life would have evolved without any concept of cyclical time passage. As far as life was concerned, everything was eternally homogenous, time wise. Nothing happened in unison.



To these sentient beings, the passage of time is irrelevant. They have no way to compare the passage of time between people. Heart beats are different, respiration is different, one's pace in walking is different. The interval to travel from one point to another is different. It is human experience that what seems like a long period of time to one person is a short period of time for another person. The beings get to where they are going when they get there, without reference to anyone else's travels. They eat when they need to, irrespective of how long it has taken between meals (think of a snake, that can go for very long periods between meals, depending on how big the last meal was). Gestations are never the same length, so even if two beings got pregnant at the same time, the deliveries would never likely be at the same time. Two objects released from a height at the same moment would be observed to arrive at the ground at the same moment, but there would be no indication that if dropped at some other moment they would arrive at the ground in the same time as these two, without some form of quantized time.



Many of our 'Laws of Physics' require time to be quantized. Humans, of course, had to quantize time before we could develop any theories based on the quantization of time. This is a straightforward 'chicken or egg' thing.



It seems to me that if Galileo had no preconceived idea of the measure of the passage of time (through the passage of seasons, day/night cycles, etc) he would not have been able to discover that the periodicity of a pendulum was constant. Depending on his state of mind, sometimes the swing would appear to take forever, sometimes it would appear to be shorter.



It also seems to me that Newton relied on a distinct concept of the passage of quantized time before hand, in order to develop many of his Laws. (The action/reaction thing, and gravitational attraction thing, would be valid, just not quantized as to the passage of time).



Building structural integrity and engineering calculations for stresses have no time component to them, if built by 'Rule of Thumb' (We built the last one this thick, and it is still standing. The other one was built thinner, and it collapsed.)



If this sentient species had no experience that the passage of time was measurable and periodic, would they ever develop a method to quantize it? Would they ever TRY to quantize it, if there was nothing in their environment that was consistently and repeatedly cyclic, that they needed to or even that they could consistently measure? What would that quantization look like?



I submit that this question is NOT the same as this, as many of the answers pertain to some form of naturally occurring cycle observable by humans, and /or are based on human circadian rhythms, which are not experienced by this species. This life form evolved without any ability to determine periodic time spans. Also, that question asks what would they use to quantize time, this asks what would their method of quantizing time look like? Would they even understand that time could be quantized into absolute divisions, that were equivalent between people and between events?



A further corollary question will be something along the lines of 'What would the Laws of Physics look like without time being quantized in the same constant periodic way that humans have quantized it?' But that is NOT in the scope of this question.







physics xenobiology time






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 3 hours ago









Renan

50.3k13117252




50.3k13117252










asked 4 hours ago









Justin Thyme the SecondJustin Thyme the Second

8757




8757







  • 3




    $begingroup$
    "Many of our 'Laws of Physics' require time to be quantized": actually, as far as we know time is not quantized. (Neither are space and energy.) Action, electric charge, spin etc. are quantized. I suppose that you mean "measured". But quantization and measurement are two very different things. For example, why wouldn't they use sandglasses? As for "nothing in their environment that was consistently and repeatedly cyclic", don't they have pendulums? Or even hearts for that matter?
    $endgroup$
    – AlexP
    3 hours ago







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @AlexP I mean quantized, as in assigned a quantity, as in time is measured in seconds. As in 'verb (used with object), quan·tized, quan·tiz·ing. Mathematics , Physics . to restrict (a variable quantity) to discrete values rather than to a continuous set of values.' from dictionary.com/browse/quantized As in the thing you have to do BEFORE you can measure it.
    $endgroup$
    – Justin Thyme the Second
    3 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    That is exactly my point: as far as we know, time does not consist of an integer number of indivisible moments. It does have a continuous set of values. 1 second, 1.2 seconds, 1.23 seconds, 1.234 seconds...
    $endgroup$
    – AlexP
    3 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    I would say that a second is a second is a second. An integer number. Used to calculate speed, velocity. and even pay checks. The concept of quantization time came a long time before the concept of quantum mechanics and quantum theory.
    $endgroup$
    – Justin Thyme the Second
    3 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    Yes, and? A meter is a meter is a meter. An ampere is an ampere is an ampere. Those are units of measurement, essentially arbitrary. We have nothing in our environment suggesting that space is quantized (and as far as we know, it isn't), but that has not stopped us from chosing an arbitrary stick and calling it one foot, one one pace, or one meter and then measuring lengths with it. It usually happens that lengths are not an integer number of feet (or paces, or meters). Same with time. There is nothing in nature which takes an integer number of seconds...
    $endgroup$
    – AlexP
    3 hours ago













  • 3




    $begingroup$
    "Many of our 'Laws of Physics' require time to be quantized": actually, as far as we know time is not quantized. (Neither are space and energy.) Action, electric charge, spin etc. are quantized. I suppose that you mean "measured". But quantization and measurement are two very different things. For example, why wouldn't they use sandglasses? As for "nothing in their environment that was consistently and repeatedly cyclic", don't they have pendulums? Or even hearts for that matter?
    $endgroup$
    – AlexP
    3 hours ago







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @AlexP I mean quantized, as in assigned a quantity, as in time is measured in seconds. As in 'verb (used with object), quan·tized, quan·tiz·ing. Mathematics , Physics . to restrict (a variable quantity) to discrete values rather than to a continuous set of values.' from dictionary.com/browse/quantized As in the thing you have to do BEFORE you can measure it.
    $endgroup$
    – Justin Thyme the Second
    3 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    That is exactly my point: as far as we know, time does not consist of an integer number of indivisible moments. It does have a continuous set of values. 1 second, 1.2 seconds, 1.23 seconds, 1.234 seconds...
    $endgroup$
    – AlexP
    3 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    I would say that a second is a second is a second. An integer number. Used to calculate speed, velocity. and even pay checks. The concept of quantization time came a long time before the concept of quantum mechanics and quantum theory.
    $endgroup$
    – Justin Thyme the Second
    3 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    Yes, and? A meter is a meter is a meter. An ampere is an ampere is an ampere. Those are units of measurement, essentially arbitrary. We have nothing in our environment suggesting that space is quantized (and as far as we know, it isn't), but that has not stopped us from chosing an arbitrary stick and calling it one foot, one one pace, or one meter and then measuring lengths with it. It usually happens that lengths are not an integer number of feet (or paces, or meters). Same with time. There is nothing in nature which takes an integer number of seconds...
    $endgroup$
    – AlexP
    3 hours ago








3




3




$begingroup$
"Many of our 'Laws of Physics' require time to be quantized": actually, as far as we know time is not quantized. (Neither are space and energy.) Action, electric charge, spin etc. are quantized. I suppose that you mean "measured". But quantization and measurement are two very different things. For example, why wouldn't they use sandglasses? As for "nothing in their environment that was consistently and repeatedly cyclic", don't they have pendulums? Or even hearts for that matter?
$endgroup$
– AlexP
3 hours ago





$begingroup$
"Many of our 'Laws of Physics' require time to be quantized": actually, as far as we know time is not quantized. (Neither are space and energy.) Action, electric charge, spin etc. are quantized. I suppose that you mean "measured". But quantization and measurement are two very different things. For example, why wouldn't they use sandglasses? As for "nothing in their environment that was consistently and repeatedly cyclic", don't they have pendulums? Or even hearts for that matter?
$endgroup$
– AlexP
3 hours ago





1




1




$begingroup$
@AlexP I mean quantized, as in assigned a quantity, as in time is measured in seconds. As in 'verb (used with object), quan·tized, quan·tiz·ing. Mathematics , Physics . to restrict (a variable quantity) to discrete values rather than to a continuous set of values.' from dictionary.com/browse/quantized As in the thing you have to do BEFORE you can measure it.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme the Second
3 hours ago





$begingroup$
@AlexP I mean quantized, as in assigned a quantity, as in time is measured in seconds. As in 'verb (used with object), quan·tized, quan·tiz·ing. Mathematics , Physics . to restrict (a variable quantity) to discrete values rather than to a continuous set of values.' from dictionary.com/browse/quantized As in the thing you have to do BEFORE you can measure it.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme the Second
3 hours ago













$begingroup$
That is exactly my point: as far as we know, time does not consist of an integer number of indivisible moments. It does have a continuous set of values. 1 second, 1.2 seconds, 1.23 seconds, 1.234 seconds...
$endgroup$
– AlexP
3 hours ago





$begingroup$
That is exactly my point: as far as we know, time does not consist of an integer number of indivisible moments. It does have a continuous set of values. 1 second, 1.2 seconds, 1.23 seconds, 1.234 seconds...
$endgroup$
– AlexP
3 hours ago













$begingroup$
I would say that a second is a second is a second. An integer number. Used to calculate speed, velocity. and even pay checks. The concept of quantization time came a long time before the concept of quantum mechanics and quantum theory.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme the Second
3 hours ago





$begingroup$
I would say that a second is a second is a second. An integer number. Used to calculate speed, velocity. and even pay checks. The concept of quantization time came a long time before the concept of quantum mechanics and quantum theory.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme the Second
3 hours ago













$begingroup$
Yes, and? A meter is a meter is a meter. An ampere is an ampere is an ampere. Those are units of measurement, essentially arbitrary. We have nothing in our environment suggesting that space is quantized (and as far as we know, it isn't), but that has not stopped us from chosing an arbitrary stick and calling it one foot, one one pace, or one meter and then measuring lengths with it. It usually happens that lengths are not an integer number of feet (or paces, or meters). Same with time. There is nothing in nature which takes an integer number of seconds...
$endgroup$
– AlexP
3 hours ago





$begingroup$
Yes, and? A meter is a meter is a meter. An ampere is an ampere is an ampere. Those are units of measurement, essentially arbitrary. We have nothing in our environment suggesting that space is quantized (and as far as we know, it isn't), but that has not stopped us from chosing an arbitrary stick and calling it one foot, one one pace, or one meter and then measuring lengths with it. It usually happens that lengths are not an integer number of feet (or paces, or meters). Same with time. There is nothing in nature which takes an integer number of seconds...
$endgroup$
– AlexP
3 hours ago











6 Answers
6






active

oldest

votes


















6












$begingroup$

Just because the heavens don't tick doesn't mean Earthly stuff won't tick as well.



People are going to count their heart beats, breaths and bowel movements.



Humanity may have used the sky as its sole time piece for millenia, but once we started to pay people by the hour we got creative. The sundial was the last time piece to depend on astronomy. The chinese would count time by seeing how long standardized ropes would take to burn. On this side of the world people would use hourglasses and water clocks. Sand and water take a fixed amount of time to clear a reservoir of a fixed size with a hole at the bottom.



Your people may not have the concept of a day, but they will still have some measure which they can use to make the life of office workers miserable. "How dare you say that the new feature for our app isn't ready yet, Rob? You told us it would take three turns of the hourglass during last scrum meeting!"






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$




















    1












    $begingroup$

    I am going to assume that your creatures have a social system. I'm also going to call them humans sense that's easier to say.



    There are a lot of different reasons why social systems form, but sense your people are capable of language I am going to assume that it was for trade and to cooperate in hunting, both of which have TIGHT connections to time.



    How much do you pay the Sheppard for watching your livestock? By the hour.
    How long do you cook bread for? How long do you wait before reaping your fields? When someone says they'll send a shipment to you, how long do you wait before you tell them they're late and in breach of contract?



    If your people don't care about answering these questions, they're not intelligent enough to form an understanding of time even in a world with cycles.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$




















      1












      $begingroup$

      Would they create concept of time, or especially effective way of measuring it a bit later? Possible. Would it be so shocking for them? No. Reason? Biology. We can't escape it.



      • heart beat (escape that)

      • circadian rhythm

      • menstrual period

      • pregnancy length (escape that, also for all major species)

      • reproduction seasons of other species (in case of many species there is clear edge in doing it in one big go to overwhelm predators or find mate, example cicadas that perfectly aim their mating season every 13-17 years, yes prime number to make predators live harder)

      • time necessary for their crops to mature from seedlings

      EDIT: Clarification
      How would animals manage? Not sure. Solar (spot) cycles? Star location on twilight zone for migratory animals? There is NO natural cycle taking 13 or 17 years, but because of evolutionary pressure animals managed to get it right. I would consider as highly unlikely if no animal managed anything like that.



      Plants do NOT have to be synchronised, even on Earth. However, there are plenty of short lived plants, that have a few months cycle from seed to crops that are harvested. It does not have to be related to any special cycles like seasons. On Earth, in very good climate rice can be harvested 3 times per year.



      If they are civilised, they are likely to have agriculture. If they have agriculture, then yield they should have some staple crops, with a few specially productive dominating. Sooner or later they start some big scale monocroping. Whatever is the time it takes from them to produce edible seeds, that period is roughly constant for any specific breed.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$












      • $begingroup$
        Most of these are addressed in the question. Some were specifically called out as not existing. For others, without the environmental triggers, how would a species align its breeding? Without seasons, why would the planting of crops be synchronized?
        $endgroup$
        – Michael Richardson
        2 hours ago










      • $begingroup$
        Corrected. Should work, unless you increase the amount of handwavium even further.
        $endgroup$
        – Shadow1024
        1 hour ago


















      0












      $begingroup$

      If economies of scale still apply here, then they will create growth and harvest cycles by selection (a la Gregor Mendel), tuned to the crop and location, once populations become efficient enough or large enough.



      This is sufficient to create a kind of local calendar, quantized into arbitrary units of equal length (it's five units until harvest... time to prepare!). And I suggest those calendars will be based not just on selection-based growth cycles, but also on the level of effort of planting, tending, harvesting, etc by these sophonts. Again, economy of scale.



      If they are thoughtful, their calendar will be easily divisible for those lacking mechanical calculators: 12 units, or 60 units, perhaps. They won't be base-ten.



      If other crops become aligned, a less finely-tuned calendar could emerge, born from the interactions of multiple cycle times. Or one could win primacy, and the others would have correlations, and calendrics could become a career or an avocation.



      These units could then form the basis of a clock: again, economies of scale imply that they will eventually have a schedule and meetings and therefore need to synchronize on an external standard. If units are quite large, then one turn of the clock could be one unit. Otherwise the clock equals the calendar.



      And thus they, too, could arrive at modern conceptions of time.



      You'll have to remove economies of scale to remove the calendar, and by implication the clock.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$




















        0












        $begingroup$

        If they were a hierarchical species, it's likely that time would be measured relative to the length of a founder-equivalent reign. This is how time was traditionally marked in monarchical societies. I'd guess that the most likely to evolve subunit would be either a base related to digits/appendage count (base ten for humans, base 8 for an arachnid species) or based on subunits of 60 - which is divisible by 1,2,3,4,5 & 6 and a natural subunit.






        share|improve this answer








        New contributor




        Michael M is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.






        $endgroup$




















          0












          $begingroup$

          Biological rhythms might be irregular, but chemistry remains the same.



          Chemical reactions aren't based on solar cycles, and they're the same everywhere in the universe. As soon as your species starts doing chemistry they're going to need to measure time, and also will have a means to do so.



          And what's the granddaddy of all chemical reactions? Fire. As soon as one of your creatures tries to search a cave using a torch or cook an egg, they'll start to figure out this "time" thing.



          Even in a tidally locked world has a changing sky.



          The world you describe has a constant sun and no moon, but it still has stars. And those stars will change as the planet orbits through the year. When your creatures venture onto the dark side of your world, they will discover the yearly cycle that can't be measured by the non-existant seasons.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$












            Your Answer





            StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
            return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
            StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
            StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
            );
            );
            , "mathjax-editing");

            StackExchange.ready(function()
            var channelOptions =
            tags: "".split(" "),
            id: "579"
            ;
            initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

            StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
            // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
            if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
            StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
            createEditor();
            );

            else
            createEditor();

            );

            function createEditor()
            StackExchange.prepareEditor(
            heartbeatType: 'answer',
            autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
            convertImagesToLinks: false,
            noModals: true,
            showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
            reputationToPostImages: null,
            bindNavPrevention: true,
            postfix: "",
            imageUploader:
            brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
            contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
            allowUrls: true
            ,
            noCode: true, onDemand: true,
            discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
            ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
            );



            );













            draft saved

            draft discarded


















            StackExchange.ready(
            function ()
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fworldbuilding.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f142123%2fon-a-tidally-locked-planet-would-time-be-quantized%23new-answer', 'question_page');

            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown

























            6 Answers
            6






            active

            oldest

            votes








            6 Answers
            6






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            6












            $begingroup$

            Just because the heavens don't tick doesn't mean Earthly stuff won't tick as well.



            People are going to count their heart beats, breaths and bowel movements.



            Humanity may have used the sky as its sole time piece for millenia, but once we started to pay people by the hour we got creative. The sundial was the last time piece to depend on astronomy. The chinese would count time by seeing how long standardized ropes would take to burn. On this side of the world people would use hourglasses and water clocks. Sand and water take a fixed amount of time to clear a reservoir of a fixed size with a hole at the bottom.



            Your people may not have the concept of a day, but they will still have some measure which they can use to make the life of office workers miserable. "How dare you say that the new feature for our app isn't ready yet, Rob? You told us it would take three turns of the hourglass during last scrum meeting!"






            share|improve this answer









            $endgroup$

















              6












              $begingroup$

              Just because the heavens don't tick doesn't mean Earthly stuff won't tick as well.



              People are going to count their heart beats, breaths and bowel movements.



              Humanity may have used the sky as its sole time piece for millenia, but once we started to pay people by the hour we got creative. The sundial was the last time piece to depend on astronomy. The chinese would count time by seeing how long standardized ropes would take to burn. On this side of the world people would use hourglasses and water clocks. Sand and water take a fixed amount of time to clear a reservoir of a fixed size with a hole at the bottom.



              Your people may not have the concept of a day, but they will still have some measure which they can use to make the life of office workers miserable. "How dare you say that the new feature for our app isn't ready yet, Rob? You told us it would take three turns of the hourglass during last scrum meeting!"






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$















                6












                6








                6





                $begingroup$

                Just because the heavens don't tick doesn't mean Earthly stuff won't tick as well.



                People are going to count their heart beats, breaths and bowel movements.



                Humanity may have used the sky as its sole time piece for millenia, but once we started to pay people by the hour we got creative. The sundial was the last time piece to depend on astronomy. The chinese would count time by seeing how long standardized ropes would take to burn. On this side of the world people would use hourglasses and water clocks. Sand and water take a fixed amount of time to clear a reservoir of a fixed size with a hole at the bottom.



                Your people may not have the concept of a day, but they will still have some measure which they can use to make the life of office workers miserable. "How dare you say that the new feature for our app isn't ready yet, Rob? You told us it would take three turns of the hourglass during last scrum meeting!"






                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$



                Just because the heavens don't tick doesn't mean Earthly stuff won't tick as well.



                People are going to count their heart beats, breaths and bowel movements.



                Humanity may have used the sky as its sole time piece for millenia, but once we started to pay people by the hour we got creative. The sundial was the last time piece to depend on astronomy. The chinese would count time by seeing how long standardized ropes would take to burn. On this side of the world people would use hourglasses and water clocks. Sand and water take a fixed amount of time to clear a reservoir of a fixed size with a hole at the bottom.



                Your people may not have the concept of a day, but they will still have some measure which they can use to make the life of office workers miserable. "How dare you say that the new feature for our app isn't ready yet, Rob? You told us it would take three turns of the hourglass during last scrum meeting!"







                share|improve this answer












                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer










                answered 3 hours ago









                RenanRenan

                50.3k13117252




                50.3k13117252





















                    1












                    $begingroup$

                    I am going to assume that your creatures have a social system. I'm also going to call them humans sense that's easier to say.



                    There are a lot of different reasons why social systems form, but sense your people are capable of language I am going to assume that it was for trade and to cooperate in hunting, both of which have TIGHT connections to time.



                    How much do you pay the Sheppard for watching your livestock? By the hour.
                    How long do you cook bread for? How long do you wait before reaping your fields? When someone says they'll send a shipment to you, how long do you wait before you tell them they're late and in breach of contract?



                    If your people don't care about answering these questions, they're not intelligent enough to form an understanding of time even in a world with cycles.






                    share|improve this answer









                    $endgroup$

















                      1












                      $begingroup$

                      I am going to assume that your creatures have a social system. I'm also going to call them humans sense that's easier to say.



                      There are a lot of different reasons why social systems form, but sense your people are capable of language I am going to assume that it was for trade and to cooperate in hunting, both of which have TIGHT connections to time.



                      How much do you pay the Sheppard for watching your livestock? By the hour.
                      How long do you cook bread for? How long do you wait before reaping your fields? When someone says they'll send a shipment to you, how long do you wait before you tell them they're late and in breach of contract?



                      If your people don't care about answering these questions, they're not intelligent enough to form an understanding of time even in a world with cycles.






                      share|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$















                        1












                        1








                        1





                        $begingroup$

                        I am going to assume that your creatures have a social system. I'm also going to call them humans sense that's easier to say.



                        There are a lot of different reasons why social systems form, but sense your people are capable of language I am going to assume that it was for trade and to cooperate in hunting, both of which have TIGHT connections to time.



                        How much do you pay the Sheppard for watching your livestock? By the hour.
                        How long do you cook bread for? How long do you wait before reaping your fields? When someone says they'll send a shipment to you, how long do you wait before you tell them they're late and in breach of contract?



                        If your people don't care about answering these questions, they're not intelligent enough to form an understanding of time even in a world with cycles.






                        share|improve this answer









                        $endgroup$



                        I am going to assume that your creatures have a social system. I'm also going to call them humans sense that's easier to say.



                        There are a lot of different reasons why social systems form, but sense your people are capable of language I am going to assume that it was for trade and to cooperate in hunting, both of which have TIGHT connections to time.



                        How much do you pay the Sheppard for watching your livestock? By the hour.
                        How long do you cook bread for? How long do you wait before reaping your fields? When someone says they'll send a shipment to you, how long do you wait before you tell them they're late and in breach of contract?



                        If your people don't care about answering these questions, they're not intelligent enough to form an understanding of time even in a world with cycles.







                        share|improve this answer












                        share|improve this answer



                        share|improve this answer










                        answered 2 hours ago









                        MuuskiMuuski

                        33817




                        33817





















                            1












                            $begingroup$

                            Would they create concept of time, or especially effective way of measuring it a bit later? Possible. Would it be so shocking for them? No. Reason? Biology. We can't escape it.



                            • heart beat (escape that)

                            • circadian rhythm

                            • menstrual period

                            • pregnancy length (escape that, also for all major species)

                            • reproduction seasons of other species (in case of many species there is clear edge in doing it in one big go to overwhelm predators or find mate, example cicadas that perfectly aim their mating season every 13-17 years, yes prime number to make predators live harder)

                            • time necessary for their crops to mature from seedlings

                            EDIT: Clarification
                            How would animals manage? Not sure. Solar (spot) cycles? Star location on twilight zone for migratory animals? There is NO natural cycle taking 13 or 17 years, but because of evolutionary pressure animals managed to get it right. I would consider as highly unlikely if no animal managed anything like that.



                            Plants do NOT have to be synchronised, even on Earth. However, there are plenty of short lived plants, that have a few months cycle from seed to crops that are harvested. It does not have to be related to any special cycles like seasons. On Earth, in very good climate rice can be harvested 3 times per year.



                            If they are civilised, they are likely to have agriculture. If they have agriculture, then yield they should have some staple crops, with a few specially productive dominating. Sooner or later they start some big scale monocroping. Whatever is the time it takes from them to produce edible seeds, that period is roughly constant for any specific breed.






                            share|improve this answer











                            $endgroup$












                            • $begingroup$
                              Most of these are addressed in the question. Some were specifically called out as not existing. For others, without the environmental triggers, how would a species align its breeding? Without seasons, why would the planting of crops be synchronized?
                              $endgroup$
                              – Michael Richardson
                              2 hours ago










                            • $begingroup$
                              Corrected. Should work, unless you increase the amount of handwavium even further.
                              $endgroup$
                              – Shadow1024
                              1 hour ago















                            1












                            $begingroup$

                            Would they create concept of time, or especially effective way of measuring it a bit later? Possible. Would it be so shocking for them? No. Reason? Biology. We can't escape it.



                            • heart beat (escape that)

                            • circadian rhythm

                            • menstrual period

                            • pregnancy length (escape that, also for all major species)

                            • reproduction seasons of other species (in case of many species there is clear edge in doing it in one big go to overwhelm predators or find mate, example cicadas that perfectly aim their mating season every 13-17 years, yes prime number to make predators live harder)

                            • time necessary for their crops to mature from seedlings

                            EDIT: Clarification
                            How would animals manage? Not sure. Solar (spot) cycles? Star location on twilight zone for migratory animals? There is NO natural cycle taking 13 or 17 years, but because of evolutionary pressure animals managed to get it right. I would consider as highly unlikely if no animal managed anything like that.



                            Plants do NOT have to be synchronised, even on Earth. However, there are plenty of short lived plants, that have a few months cycle from seed to crops that are harvested. It does not have to be related to any special cycles like seasons. On Earth, in very good climate rice can be harvested 3 times per year.



                            If they are civilised, they are likely to have agriculture. If they have agriculture, then yield they should have some staple crops, with a few specially productive dominating. Sooner or later they start some big scale monocroping. Whatever is the time it takes from them to produce edible seeds, that period is roughly constant for any specific breed.






                            share|improve this answer











                            $endgroup$












                            • $begingroup$
                              Most of these are addressed in the question. Some were specifically called out as not existing. For others, without the environmental triggers, how would a species align its breeding? Without seasons, why would the planting of crops be synchronized?
                              $endgroup$
                              – Michael Richardson
                              2 hours ago










                            • $begingroup$
                              Corrected. Should work, unless you increase the amount of handwavium even further.
                              $endgroup$
                              – Shadow1024
                              1 hour ago













                            1












                            1








                            1





                            $begingroup$

                            Would they create concept of time, or especially effective way of measuring it a bit later? Possible. Would it be so shocking for them? No. Reason? Biology. We can't escape it.



                            • heart beat (escape that)

                            • circadian rhythm

                            • menstrual period

                            • pregnancy length (escape that, also for all major species)

                            • reproduction seasons of other species (in case of many species there is clear edge in doing it in one big go to overwhelm predators or find mate, example cicadas that perfectly aim their mating season every 13-17 years, yes prime number to make predators live harder)

                            • time necessary for their crops to mature from seedlings

                            EDIT: Clarification
                            How would animals manage? Not sure. Solar (spot) cycles? Star location on twilight zone for migratory animals? There is NO natural cycle taking 13 or 17 years, but because of evolutionary pressure animals managed to get it right. I would consider as highly unlikely if no animal managed anything like that.



                            Plants do NOT have to be synchronised, even on Earth. However, there are plenty of short lived plants, that have a few months cycle from seed to crops that are harvested. It does not have to be related to any special cycles like seasons. On Earth, in very good climate rice can be harvested 3 times per year.



                            If they are civilised, they are likely to have agriculture. If they have agriculture, then yield they should have some staple crops, with a few specially productive dominating. Sooner or later they start some big scale monocroping. Whatever is the time it takes from them to produce edible seeds, that period is roughly constant for any specific breed.






                            share|improve this answer











                            $endgroup$



                            Would they create concept of time, or especially effective way of measuring it a bit later? Possible. Would it be so shocking for them? No. Reason? Biology. We can't escape it.



                            • heart beat (escape that)

                            • circadian rhythm

                            • menstrual period

                            • pregnancy length (escape that, also for all major species)

                            • reproduction seasons of other species (in case of many species there is clear edge in doing it in one big go to overwhelm predators or find mate, example cicadas that perfectly aim their mating season every 13-17 years, yes prime number to make predators live harder)

                            • time necessary for their crops to mature from seedlings

                            EDIT: Clarification
                            How would animals manage? Not sure. Solar (spot) cycles? Star location on twilight zone for migratory animals? There is NO natural cycle taking 13 or 17 years, but because of evolutionary pressure animals managed to get it right. I would consider as highly unlikely if no animal managed anything like that.



                            Plants do NOT have to be synchronised, even on Earth. However, there are plenty of short lived plants, that have a few months cycle from seed to crops that are harvested. It does not have to be related to any special cycles like seasons. On Earth, in very good climate rice can be harvested 3 times per year.



                            If they are civilised, they are likely to have agriculture. If they have agriculture, then yield they should have some staple crops, with a few specially productive dominating. Sooner or later they start some big scale monocroping. Whatever is the time it takes from them to produce edible seeds, that period is roughly constant for any specific breed.







                            share|improve this answer














                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer








                            edited 2 hours ago

























                            answered 2 hours ago









                            Shadow1024Shadow1024

                            4,903933




                            4,903933











                            • $begingroup$
                              Most of these are addressed in the question. Some were specifically called out as not existing. For others, without the environmental triggers, how would a species align its breeding? Without seasons, why would the planting of crops be synchronized?
                              $endgroup$
                              – Michael Richardson
                              2 hours ago










                            • $begingroup$
                              Corrected. Should work, unless you increase the amount of handwavium even further.
                              $endgroup$
                              – Shadow1024
                              1 hour ago
















                            • $begingroup$
                              Most of these are addressed in the question. Some were specifically called out as not existing. For others, without the environmental triggers, how would a species align its breeding? Without seasons, why would the planting of crops be synchronized?
                              $endgroup$
                              – Michael Richardson
                              2 hours ago










                            • $begingroup$
                              Corrected. Should work, unless you increase the amount of handwavium even further.
                              $endgroup$
                              – Shadow1024
                              1 hour ago















                            $begingroup$
                            Most of these are addressed in the question. Some were specifically called out as not existing. For others, without the environmental triggers, how would a species align its breeding? Without seasons, why would the planting of crops be synchronized?
                            $endgroup$
                            – Michael Richardson
                            2 hours ago




                            $begingroup$
                            Most of these are addressed in the question. Some were specifically called out as not existing. For others, without the environmental triggers, how would a species align its breeding? Without seasons, why would the planting of crops be synchronized?
                            $endgroup$
                            – Michael Richardson
                            2 hours ago












                            $begingroup$
                            Corrected. Should work, unless you increase the amount of handwavium even further.
                            $endgroup$
                            – Shadow1024
                            1 hour ago




                            $begingroup$
                            Corrected. Should work, unless you increase the amount of handwavium even further.
                            $endgroup$
                            – Shadow1024
                            1 hour ago











                            0












                            $begingroup$

                            If economies of scale still apply here, then they will create growth and harvest cycles by selection (a la Gregor Mendel), tuned to the crop and location, once populations become efficient enough or large enough.



                            This is sufficient to create a kind of local calendar, quantized into arbitrary units of equal length (it's five units until harvest... time to prepare!). And I suggest those calendars will be based not just on selection-based growth cycles, but also on the level of effort of planting, tending, harvesting, etc by these sophonts. Again, economy of scale.



                            If they are thoughtful, their calendar will be easily divisible for those lacking mechanical calculators: 12 units, or 60 units, perhaps. They won't be base-ten.



                            If other crops become aligned, a less finely-tuned calendar could emerge, born from the interactions of multiple cycle times. Or one could win primacy, and the others would have correlations, and calendrics could become a career or an avocation.



                            These units could then form the basis of a clock: again, economies of scale imply that they will eventually have a schedule and meetings and therefore need to synchronize on an external standard. If units are quite large, then one turn of the clock could be one unit. Otherwise the clock equals the calendar.



                            And thus they, too, could arrive at modern conceptions of time.



                            You'll have to remove economies of scale to remove the calendar, and by implication the clock.






                            share|improve this answer











                            $endgroup$

















                              0












                              $begingroup$

                              If economies of scale still apply here, then they will create growth and harvest cycles by selection (a la Gregor Mendel), tuned to the crop and location, once populations become efficient enough or large enough.



                              This is sufficient to create a kind of local calendar, quantized into arbitrary units of equal length (it's five units until harvest... time to prepare!). And I suggest those calendars will be based not just on selection-based growth cycles, but also on the level of effort of planting, tending, harvesting, etc by these sophonts. Again, economy of scale.



                              If they are thoughtful, their calendar will be easily divisible for those lacking mechanical calculators: 12 units, or 60 units, perhaps. They won't be base-ten.



                              If other crops become aligned, a less finely-tuned calendar could emerge, born from the interactions of multiple cycle times. Or one could win primacy, and the others would have correlations, and calendrics could become a career or an avocation.



                              These units could then form the basis of a clock: again, economies of scale imply that they will eventually have a schedule and meetings and therefore need to synchronize on an external standard. If units are quite large, then one turn of the clock could be one unit. Otherwise the clock equals the calendar.



                              And thus they, too, could arrive at modern conceptions of time.



                              You'll have to remove economies of scale to remove the calendar, and by implication the clock.






                              share|improve this answer











                              $endgroup$















                                0












                                0








                                0





                                $begingroup$

                                If economies of scale still apply here, then they will create growth and harvest cycles by selection (a la Gregor Mendel), tuned to the crop and location, once populations become efficient enough or large enough.



                                This is sufficient to create a kind of local calendar, quantized into arbitrary units of equal length (it's five units until harvest... time to prepare!). And I suggest those calendars will be based not just on selection-based growth cycles, but also on the level of effort of planting, tending, harvesting, etc by these sophonts. Again, economy of scale.



                                If they are thoughtful, their calendar will be easily divisible for those lacking mechanical calculators: 12 units, or 60 units, perhaps. They won't be base-ten.



                                If other crops become aligned, a less finely-tuned calendar could emerge, born from the interactions of multiple cycle times. Or one could win primacy, and the others would have correlations, and calendrics could become a career or an avocation.



                                These units could then form the basis of a clock: again, economies of scale imply that they will eventually have a schedule and meetings and therefore need to synchronize on an external standard. If units are quite large, then one turn of the clock could be one unit. Otherwise the clock equals the calendar.



                                And thus they, too, could arrive at modern conceptions of time.



                                You'll have to remove economies of scale to remove the calendar, and by implication the clock.






                                share|improve this answer











                                $endgroup$



                                If economies of scale still apply here, then they will create growth and harvest cycles by selection (a la Gregor Mendel), tuned to the crop and location, once populations become efficient enough or large enough.



                                This is sufficient to create a kind of local calendar, quantized into arbitrary units of equal length (it's five units until harvest... time to prepare!). And I suggest those calendars will be based not just on selection-based growth cycles, but also on the level of effort of planting, tending, harvesting, etc by these sophonts. Again, economy of scale.



                                If they are thoughtful, their calendar will be easily divisible for those lacking mechanical calculators: 12 units, or 60 units, perhaps. They won't be base-ten.



                                If other crops become aligned, a less finely-tuned calendar could emerge, born from the interactions of multiple cycle times. Or one could win primacy, and the others would have correlations, and calendrics could become a career or an avocation.



                                These units could then form the basis of a clock: again, economies of scale imply that they will eventually have a schedule and meetings and therefore need to synchronize on an external standard. If units are quite large, then one turn of the clock could be one unit. Otherwise the clock equals the calendar.



                                And thus they, too, could arrive at modern conceptions of time.



                                You'll have to remove economies of scale to remove the calendar, and by implication the clock.







                                share|improve this answer














                                share|improve this answer



                                share|improve this answer








                                edited 3 hours ago

























                                answered 3 hours ago









                                rjerje

                                568210




                                568210





















                                    0












                                    $begingroup$

                                    If they were a hierarchical species, it's likely that time would be measured relative to the length of a founder-equivalent reign. This is how time was traditionally marked in monarchical societies. I'd guess that the most likely to evolve subunit would be either a base related to digits/appendage count (base ten for humans, base 8 for an arachnid species) or based on subunits of 60 - which is divisible by 1,2,3,4,5 & 6 and a natural subunit.






                                    share|improve this answer








                                    New contributor




                                    Michael M is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                    Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                    $endgroup$

















                                      0












                                      $begingroup$

                                      If they were a hierarchical species, it's likely that time would be measured relative to the length of a founder-equivalent reign. This is how time was traditionally marked in monarchical societies. I'd guess that the most likely to evolve subunit would be either a base related to digits/appendage count (base ten for humans, base 8 for an arachnid species) or based on subunits of 60 - which is divisible by 1,2,3,4,5 & 6 and a natural subunit.






                                      share|improve this answer








                                      New contributor




                                      Michael M is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                      Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                      $endgroup$















                                        0












                                        0








                                        0





                                        $begingroup$

                                        If they were a hierarchical species, it's likely that time would be measured relative to the length of a founder-equivalent reign. This is how time was traditionally marked in monarchical societies. I'd guess that the most likely to evolve subunit would be either a base related to digits/appendage count (base ten for humans, base 8 for an arachnid species) or based on subunits of 60 - which is divisible by 1,2,3,4,5 & 6 and a natural subunit.






                                        share|improve this answer








                                        New contributor




                                        Michael M is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                        Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                        $endgroup$



                                        If they were a hierarchical species, it's likely that time would be measured relative to the length of a founder-equivalent reign. This is how time was traditionally marked in monarchical societies. I'd guess that the most likely to evolve subunit would be either a base related to digits/appendage count (base ten for humans, base 8 for an arachnid species) or based on subunits of 60 - which is divisible by 1,2,3,4,5 & 6 and a natural subunit.







                                        share|improve this answer








                                        New contributor




                                        Michael M is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                        Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                        share|improve this answer



                                        share|improve this answer






                                        New contributor




                                        Michael M is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                        Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                        answered 17 mins ago









                                        Michael MMichael M

                                        1




                                        1




                                        New contributor




                                        Michael M is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                        Check out our Code of Conduct.





                                        New contributor





                                        Michael M is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                        Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                        Michael M is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                        Check out our Code of Conduct.





















                                            0












                                            $begingroup$

                                            Biological rhythms might be irregular, but chemistry remains the same.



                                            Chemical reactions aren't based on solar cycles, and they're the same everywhere in the universe. As soon as your species starts doing chemistry they're going to need to measure time, and also will have a means to do so.



                                            And what's the granddaddy of all chemical reactions? Fire. As soon as one of your creatures tries to search a cave using a torch or cook an egg, they'll start to figure out this "time" thing.



                                            Even in a tidally locked world has a changing sky.



                                            The world you describe has a constant sun and no moon, but it still has stars. And those stars will change as the planet orbits through the year. When your creatures venture onto the dark side of your world, they will discover the yearly cycle that can't be measured by the non-existant seasons.






                                            share|improve this answer









                                            $endgroup$

















                                              0












                                              $begingroup$

                                              Biological rhythms might be irregular, but chemistry remains the same.



                                              Chemical reactions aren't based on solar cycles, and they're the same everywhere in the universe. As soon as your species starts doing chemistry they're going to need to measure time, and also will have a means to do so.



                                              And what's the granddaddy of all chemical reactions? Fire. As soon as one of your creatures tries to search a cave using a torch or cook an egg, they'll start to figure out this "time" thing.



                                              Even in a tidally locked world has a changing sky.



                                              The world you describe has a constant sun and no moon, but it still has stars. And those stars will change as the planet orbits through the year. When your creatures venture onto the dark side of your world, they will discover the yearly cycle that can't be measured by the non-existant seasons.






                                              share|improve this answer









                                              $endgroup$















                                                0












                                                0








                                                0





                                                $begingroup$

                                                Biological rhythms might be irregular, but chemistry remains the same.



                                                Chemical reactions aren't based on solar cycles, and they're the same everywhere in the universe. As soon as your species starts doing chemistry they're going to need to measure time, and also will have a means to do so.



                                                And what's the granddaddy of all chemical reactions? Fire. As soon as one of your creatures tries to search a cave using a torch or cook an egg, they'll start to figure out this "time" thing.



                                                Even in a tidally locked world has a changing sky.



                                                The world you describe has a constant sun and no moon, but it still has stars. And those stars will change as the planet orbits through the year. When your creatures venture onto the dark side of your world, they will discover the yearly cycle that can't be measured by the non-existant seasons.






                                                share|improve this answer









                                                $endgroup$



                                                Biological rhythms might be irregular, but chemistry remains the same.



                                                Chemical reactions aren't based on solar cycles, and they're the same everywhere in the universe. As soon as your species starts doing chemistry they're going to need to measure time, and also will have a means to do so.



                                                And what's the granddaddy of all chemical reactions? Fire. As soon as one of your creatures tries to search a cave using a torch or cook an egg, they'll start to figure out this "time" thing.



                                                Even in a tidally locked world has a changing sky.



                                                The world you describe has a constant sun and no moon, but it still has stars. And those stars will change as the planet orbits through the year. When your creatures venture onto the dark side of your world, they will discover the yearly cycle that can't be measured by the non-existant seasons.







                                                share|improve this answer












                                                share|improve this answer



                                                share|improve this answer










                                                answered 16 mins ago









                                                Arcanist LupusArcanist Lupus

                                                4,9571624




                                                4,9571624



























                                                    draft saved

                                                    draft discarded
















































                                                    Thanks for contributing an answer to Worldbuilding Stack Exchange!


                                                    • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                                                    But avoid


                                                    • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                                                    • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

                                                    Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                                                    To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                                                    draft saved


                                                    draft discarded














                                                    StackExchange.ready(
                                                    function ()
                                                    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fworldbuilding.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f142123%2fon-a-tidally-locked-planet-would-time-be-quantized%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                                                    );

                                                    Post as a guest















                                                    Required, but never shown





















































                                                    Required, but never shown














                                                    Required, but never shown












                                                    Required, but never shown







                                                    Required, but never shown

































                                                    Required, but never shown














                                                    Required, but never shown












                                                    Required, but never shown







                                                    Required, but never shown







                                                    Popular posts from this blog

                                                    Are there any AGPL-style licences that require source code modifications to be public? Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern) Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?Force derivative works to be publicAre there any GPL like licenses for Apple App Store?Do you violate the GPL if you provide source code that cannot be compiled?GPL - is it distribution to use libraries in an appliance loaned to customers?Distributing App for free which uses GPL'ed codeModifications of server software under GPL, with web/CLI interfaceDoes using an AGPLv3-licensed library prevent me from dual-licensing my own source code?Can I publish only select code under GPLv3 from a private project?Is there published precedent regarding the scope of covered work that uses AGPL software?If MIT licensed code links to GPL licensed code what should be the license of the resulting binary program?If I use a public API endpoint that has its source code licensed under AGPL in my app, do I need to disclose my source?

                                                    2013 GY136 Descoberta | Órbita | Referências Menu de navegação«List Of Centaurs and Scattered-Disk Objects»«List of Known Trans-Neptunian Objects»

                                                    Button changing it's text & action. Good or terrible? The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are Inchanging text on user mouseoverShould certain functions be “hard to find” for powerusers to discover?Custom liking function - do I need user login?Using different checkbox style for different checkbox behaviorBest Practices: Save and Exit in Software UIInteraction with remote validated formMore efficient UI to progress the user through a complicated process?Designing a popup notice for a gameShould bulk-editing functions be hidden until a table row is selected, or is there a better solution?Is it bad practice to disable (replace) the context menu?