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Is DC-to-DC (24 V to 12 V) buck conversion typically more efficient than AC-to-DC (110 V to 12 V) conversion?


Efficient low-power buck (step-down) regulator IC for Li-Ion - 3.3V conversion?Convert 320VDC to 220VAC or 48VDC voltage using 220VAC (UK) UPS?Capacitor Powered Vehicle ProjectInverter Design - What DC input voltage for most efficient DC to 120VAC inverterWhat's going to be more efficient, buck from series or boost from parallel?What's an efficient way to get below the standard 1.25V on buck converters?What drawbacks to bucking, then boosting the same current?DC-to-DC conversion for solar, off the shelf or custom?DC Buck Converter for more than 3AHow to deal with an inconsistent / noisy power signal?






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3












$begingroup$


While building an online UPS system, I'm basing the choice to eliminate as many AC inverters from the system as possible because of the assumption that DC-to-DC conversion is more efficient than AC-to-DC conversion.



I'm not totally sure that this is the case though. I've read some articles stating that buck conversion might only be 85% efficient, yet many product offerings tout 97% efficiency. Also, one of the big selling points on AC is the efficiency of conversion. I am hoping to get some solid information on this specific efficiency comparison.










share|improve this question









New contributor




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    3












    $begingroup$


    While building an online UPS system, I'm basing the choice to eliminate as many AC inverters from the system as possible because of the assumption that DC-to-DC conversion is more efficient than AC-to-DC conversion.



    I'm not totally sure that this is the case though. I've read some articles stating that buck conversion might only be 85% efficient, yet many product offerings tout 97% efficiency. Also, one of the big selling points on AC is the efficiency of conversion. I am hoping to get some solid information on this specific efficiency comparison.










    share|improve this question









    New contributor




    Dobler is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.







    $endgroup$














      3












      3








      3





      $begingroup$


      While building an online UPS system, I'm basing the choice to eliminate as many AC inverters from the system as possible because of the assumption that DC-to-DC conversion is more efficient than AC-to-DC conversion.



      I'm not totally sure that this is the case though. I've read some articles stating that buck conversion might only be 85% efficient, yet many product offerings tout 97% efficiency. Also, one of the big selling points on AC is the efficiency of conversion. I am hoping to get some solid information on this specific efficiency comparison.










      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      Dobler is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.







      $endgroup$




      While building an online UPS system, I'm basing the choice to eliminate as many AC inverters from the system as possible because of the assumption that DC-to-DC conversion is more efficient than AC-to-DC conversion.



      I'm not totally sure that this is the case though. I've read some articles stating that buck conversion might only be 85% efficient, yet many product offerings tout 97% efficiency. Also, one of the big selling points on AC is the efficiency of conversion. I am hoping to get some solid information on this specific efficiency comparison.







      dc-dc-converter buck inverter ac-dc comparison






      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      Dobler is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.











      share|improve this question









      New contributor




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      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 1 hour ago









      Peter Mortensen

      1,60031422




      1,60031422






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      asked 14 hours ago









      DoblerDobler

      1192




      1192




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      New contributor





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          3 Answers
          3






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          3












          $begingroup$

          No general statements can be given.



          Generally, the larger the input/output voltage ratio is, the smaller the efficiency for basically all converter topologies.



          However, whether you end up with 70%, 85% or 99% efficiency depends on the actual converter and the load.



          The reason installation wiring uses higher voltages like 120V or 230V is that the energy losses during transportation will be lower if you need less current to deliver the same power – so, the very standard way of having 120V to racks of equipment and then individual converters where you need your power makes a lot of sense.



          AC/DC converters are technically so close to DC/DC converters that the difference between those is shadowed by other technical considerations, such as how much you need to "overdimension" your power supply, how much money you want to invest in copper, and whether you're going for constrained size etc.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$




















            3












            $begingroup$

            There will be almost no difference in the conversion efficiency of an AC-DC versus a DC-DC convertor.

            For example if you used a PC power supply to convert 120/240 to 12VDC (I'll simply ignore the other voltages produced), most modern SMPS supplies are at least 85% efficient:



            enter image description here



            Here you can clearly see that the efficiency at some reasonable load range is much better than 85%, and up to 90% for some portion of the load managed.



            A DC-DC convertor specifically designed for 24-12VDC conversion could be expected to achieve similar efficiencies at reasonable loads.



            However, there are other differences that may impact your decision.



            1. A task designed 24-12V convertor may run at a much higher frequency than a PC power supply and be more space efficient for the same power output.

            2. For any given 12VDC load current the 24-12V convertor will have more input current flowing than the PC power supply. This may significantly impact the I^2R losses on the primary side.

            3. The device cost (FETs voltage rating, isolation components, inductors) will be significantly higher in the PC supply.

            You need to decide where your cost vs performance decisions are made.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$




















              2












              $begingroup$

              I would suggest, based on my own experience, the DC-to-DC route is better for low power situations like just a few watts. If you need kilowatts, you'd better go AC to DC.



              In between the efficiency is unlikely to be regulated by this particular choice as pointed out by Marcus. I have used buck convertors with 90% or greater efficiency, and they are pretty well developed nowadays.






              share|improve this answer










              New contributor




              PJ Noxon is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
              Check out our Code of Conduct.






              $endgroup$













                Your Answer






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                3 Answers
                3






                active

                oldest

                votes








                3 Answers
                3






                active

                oldest

                votes









                active

                oldest

                votes






                active

                oldest

                votes









                3












                $begingroup$

                No general statements can be given.



                Generally, the larger the input/output voltage ratio is, the smaller the efficiency for basically all converter topologies.



                However, whether you end up with 70%, 85% or 99% efficiency depends on the actual converter and the load.



                The reason installation wiring uses higher voltages like 120V or 230V is that the energy losses during transportation will be lower if you need less current to deliver the same power – so, the very standard way of having 120V to racks of equipment and then individual converters where you need your power makes a lot of sense.



                AC/DC converters are technically so close to DC/DC converters that the difference between those is shadowed by other technical considerations, such as how much you need to "overdimension" your power supply, how much money you want to invest in copper, and whether you're going for constrained size etc.






                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$

















                  3












                  $begingroup$

                  No general statements can be given.



                  Generally, the larger the input/output voltage ratio is, the smaller the efficiency for basically all converter topologies.



                  However, whether you end up with 70%, 85% or 99% efficiency depends on the actual converter and the load.



                  The reason installation wiring uses higher voltages like 120V or 230V is that the energy losses during transportation will be lower if you need less current to deliver the same power – so, the very standard way of having 120V to racks of equipment and then individual converters where you need your power makes a lot of sense.



                  AC/DC converters are technically so close to DC/DC converters that the difference between those is shadowed by other technical considerations, such as how much you need to "overdimension" your power supply, how much money you want to invest in copper, and whether you're going for constrained size etc.






                  share|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$















                    3












                    3








                    3





                    $begingroup$

                    No general statements can be given.



                    Generally, the larger the input/output voltage ratio is, the smaller the efficiency for basically all converter topologies.



                    However, whether you end up with 70%, 85% or 99% efficiency depends on the actual converter and the load.



                    The reason installation wiring uses higher voltages like 120V or 230V is that the energy losses during transportation will be lower if you need less current to deliver the same power – so, the very standard way of having 120V to racks of equipment and then individual converters where you need your power makes a lot of sense.



                    AC/DC converters are technically so close to DC/DC converters that the difference between those is shadowed by other technical considerations, such as how much you need to "overdimension" your power supply, how much money you want to invest in copper, and whether you're going for constrained size etc.






                    share|improve this answer









                    $endgroup$



                    No general statements can be given.



                    Generally, the larger the input/output voltage ratio is, the smaller the efficiency for basically all converter topologies.



                    However, whether you end up with 70%, 85% or 99% efficiency depends on the actual converter and the load.



                    The reason installation wiring uses higher voltages like 120V or 230V is that the energy losses during transportation will be lower if you need less current to deliver the same power – so, the very standard way of having 120V to racks of equipment and then individual converters where you need your power makes a lot of sense.



                    AC/DC converters are technically so close to DC/DC converters that the difference between those is shadowed by other technical considerations, such as how much you need to "overdimension" your power supply, how much money you want to invest in copper, and whether you're going for constrained size etc.







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered 14 hours ago









                    Marcus MüllerMarcus Müller

                    35.7k363103




                    35.7k363103























                        3












                        $begingroup$

                        There will be almost no difference in the conversion efficiency of an AC-DC versus a DC-DC convertor.

                        For example if you used a PC power supply to convert 120/240 to 12VDC (I'll simply ignore the other voltages produced), most modern SMPS supplies are at least 85% efficient:



                        enter image description here



                        Here you can clearly see that the efficiency at some reasonable load range is much better than 85%, and up to 90% for some portion of the load managed.



                        A DC-DC convertor specifically designed for 24-12VDC conversion could be expected to achieve similar efficiencies at reasonable loads.



                        However, there are other differences that may impact your decision.



                        1. A task designed 24-12V convertor may run at a much higher frequency than a PC power supply and be more space efficient for the same power output.

                        2. For any given 12VDC load current the 24-12V convertor will have more input current flowing than the PC power supply. This may significantly impact the I^2R losses on the primary side.

                        3. The device cost (FETs voltage rating, isolation components, inductors) will be significantly higher in the PC supply.

                        You need to decide where your cost vs performance decisions are made.






                        share|improve this answer











                        $endgroup$

















                          3












                          $begingroup$

                          There will be almost no difference in the conversion efficiency of an AC-DC versus a DC-DC convertor.

                          For example if you used a PC power supply to convert 120/240 to 12VDC (I'll simply ignore the other voltages produced), most modern SMPS supplies are at least 85% efficient:



                          enter image description here



                          Here you can clearly see that the efficiency at some reasonable load range is much better than 85%, and up to 90% for some portion of the load managed.



                          A DC-DC convertor specifically designed for 24-12VDC conversion could be expected to achieve similar efficiencies at reasonable loads.



                          However, there are other differences that may impact your decision.



                          1. A task designed 24-12V convertor may run at a much higher frequency than a PC power supply and be more space efficient for the same power output.

                          2. For any given 12VDC load current the 24-12V convertor will have more input current flowing than the PC power supply. This may significantly impact the I^2R losses on the primary side.

                          3. The device cost (FETs voltage rating, isolation components, inductors) will be significantly higher in the PC supply.

                          You need to decide where your cost vs performance decisions are made.






                          share|improve this answer











                          $endgroup$















                            3












                            3








                            3





                            $begingroup$

                            There will be almost no difference in the conversion efficiency of an AC-DC versus a DC-DC convertor.

                            For example if you used a PC power supply to convert 120/240 to 12VDC (I'll simply ignore the other voltages produced), most modern SMPS supplies are at least 85% efficient:



                            enter image description here



                            Here you can clearly see that the efficiency at some reasonable load range is much better than 85%, and up to 90% for some portion of the load managed.



                            A DC-DC convertor specifically designed for 24-12VDC conversion could be expected to achieve similar efficiencies at reasonable loads.



                            However, there are other differences that may impact your decision.



                            1. A task designed 24-12V convertor may run at a much higher frequency than a PC power supply and be more space efficient for the same power output.

                            2. For any given 12VDC load current the 24-12V convertor will have more input current flowing than the PC power supply. This may significantly impact the I^2R losses on the primary side.

                            3. The device cost (FETs voltage rating, isolation components, inductors) will be significantly higher in the PC supply.

                            You need to decide where your cost vs performance decisions are made.






                            share|improve this answer











                            $endgroup$



                            There will be almost no difference in the conversion efficiency of an AC-DC versus a DC-DC convertor.

                            For example if you used a PC power supply to convert 120/240 to 12VDC (I'll simply ignore the other voltages produced), most modern SMPS supplies are at least 85% efficient:



                            enter image description here



                            Here you can clearly see that the efficiency at some reasonable load range is much better than 85%, and up to 90% for some portion of the load managed.



                            A DC-DC convertor specifically designed for 24-12VDC conversion could be expected to achieve similar efficiencies at reasonable loads.



                            However, there are other differences that may impact your decision.



                            1. A task designed 24-12V convertor may run at a much higher frequency than a PC power supply and be more space efficient for the same power output.

                            2. For any given 12VDC load current the 24-12V convertor will have more input current flowing than the PC power supply. This may significantly impact the I^2R losses on the primary side.

                            3. The device cost (FETs voltage rating, isolation components, inductors) will be significantly higher in the PC supply.

                            You need to decide where your cost vs performance decisions are made.







                            share|improve this answer














                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer








                            edited 13 hours ago

























                            answered 13 hours ago









                            Jack CreaseyJack Creasey

                            15.6k2823




                            15.6k2823





















                                2












                                $begingroup$

                                I would suggest, based on my own experience, the DC-to-DC route is better for low power situations like just a few watts. If you need kilowatts, you'd better go AC to DC.



                                In between the efficiency is unlikely to be regulated by this particular choice as pointed out by Marcus. I have used buck convertors with 90% or greater efficiency, and they are pretty well developed nowadays.






                                share|improve this answer










                                New contributor




                                PJ Noxon is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                $endgroup$

















                                  2












                                  $begingroup$

                                  I would suggest, based on my own experience, the DC-to-DC route is better for low power situations like just a few watts. If you need kilowatts, you'd better go AC to DC.



                                  In between the efficiency is unlikely to be regulated by this particular choice as pointed out by Marcus. I have used buck convertors with 90% or greater efficiency, and they are pretty well developed nowadays.






                                  share|improve this answer










                                  New contributor




                                  PJ Noxon is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                  Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                  $endgroup$















                                    2












                                    2








                                    2





                                    $begingroup$

                                    I would suggest, based on my own experience, the DC-to-DC route is better for low power situations like just a few watts. If you need kilowatts, you'd better go AC to DC.



                                    In between the efficiency is unlikely to be regulated by this particular choice as pointed out by Marcus. I have used buck convertors with 90% or greater efficiency, and they are pretty well developed nowadays.






                                    share|improve this answer










                                    New contributor




                                    PJ Noxon is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                    Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                    $endgroup$



                                    I would suggest, based on my own experience, the DC-to-DC route is better for low power situations like just a few watts. If you need kilowatts, you'd better go AC to DC.



                                    In between the efficiency is unlikely to be regulated by this particular choice as pointed out by Marcus. I have used buck convertors with 90% or greater efficiency, and they are pretty well developed nowadays.







                                    share|improve this answer










                                    New contributor




                                    PJ Noxon is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                    Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                    share|improve this answer



                                    share|improve this answer








                                    edited 1 hour ago









                                    Peter Mortensen

                                    1,60031422




                                    1,60031422






                                    New contributor




                                    PJ Noxon is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                                    answered 12 hours ago









                                    PJ NoxonPJ Noxon

                                    284




                                    284




                                    New contributor




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                                    New contributor





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                                    PJ Noxon is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                    Check out our Code of Conduct.




















                                        Dobler is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









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