Why is the “ls” command showing permissions of files in a FAT32 partition?2019 Community Moderator ElectionBase permissions on a fat32 usb driveChanging file permissions of auto-mounted hot-plugged FAT32 USB partitionWhy are 666 the default file creation permissions?How do file permissions work with partition filesystem?openSUSE Live USB with windows-accessible FAT32 partitionOne of my pdf files in my apache server can be accessed the other can't, with the same permissions and same directoryHow to rename multiple files by adding a common string at beginning of the files?Parted: Creating fat32 partition on new drive doesn't mount properly, uses loop deviceList complete file name on a local apache httpd serverHow to grep the rows with same column in different files and print specific column and add onto the original file?

Stack Interview Code methods made from class Node and Smart Pointers

PTIJ: Why is Haman obsessed with Bose?

Which was the first story featuring espers?

How do you make your own symbol when Detexify fails?

What does Apple's new App Store requirement mean

Is my low blitz game drawing rate at www.chess.com an indicator that I am weak in chess?

How can I write humor as character trait?

What is the difference between lands and mana?

Is it allowed to activate the ability of multiple planeswalkers in a single turn?

Has the laser at Magurele, Romania reached a tenth of the Sun's power?

How much of a Devil Fruit must be consumed to gain the power?

Can I cause damage to electrical appliances by unplugging them when they are turned on?

Why is so much work done on numerical verification of the Riemann Hypothesis?

Why does AES have exactly 10 rounds for a 128-bit key, 12 for 192 bits and 14 for a 256-bit key size?

What's the name of the logical fallacy where a debater extends a statement far beyond the original statement to make it true?

How to draw a matrix with arrows in limited space

The Digit Triangles

Why does Carol not get rid of the Kree symbol on her suit when she changes its colours?

Is there a RAID 0 Equivalent for RAM?

What does "Scientists rise up against statistical significance" mean? (Comment in Nature)

Does grappling negate Mirror Image?

Mimic lecturing on blackboard, facing audience

15% tax on $7.5k earnings. Is that right?

"It doesn't matter" or "it won't matter"?



Why is the “ls” command showing permissions of files in a FAT32 partition?



2019 Community Moderator ElectionBase permissions on a fat32 usb driveChanging file permissions of auto-mounted hot-plugged FAT32 USB partitionWhy are 666 the default file creation permissions?How do file permissions work with partition filesystem?openSUSE Live USB with windows-accessible FAT32 partitionOne of my pdf files in my apache server can be accessed the other can't, with the same permissions and same directoryHow to rename multiple files by adding a common string at beginning of the files?Parted: Creating fat32 partition on new drive doesn't mount properly, uses loop deviceList complete file name on a local apache httpd serverHow to grep the rows with same column in different files and print specific column and add onto the original file?










19















I believe that the FAT32 file system does not support file permissions, however when I do ls -l on a FAT32 partition, ls -l shows that the files have permissions:



-rw-r--r-- 1 john john 11 Mar 20 15:43 file1.txt
-rw-r--r-- 1 john john 5 Mar 20 15:49 file2.txt


Why is ls -l displaying the permissions of files?










share|improve this question









New contributor




user342731 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
























    19















    I believe that the FAT32 file system does not support file permissions, however when I do ls -l on a FAT32 partition, ls -l shows that the files have permissions:



    -rw-r--r-- 1 john john 11 Mar 20 15:43 file1.txt
    -rw-r--r-- 1 john john 5 Mar 20 15:49 file2.txt


    Why is ls -l displaying the permissions of files?










    share|improve this question









    New contributor




    user342731 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.






















      19












      19








      19








      I believe that the FAT32 file system does not support file permissions, however when I do ls -l on a FAT32 partition, ls -l shows that the files have permissions:



      -rw-r--r-- 1 john john 11 Mar 20 15:43 file1.txt
      -rw-r--r-- 1 john john 5 Mar 20 15:49 file2.txt


      Why is ls -l displaying the permissions of files?










      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      user342731 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.












      I believe that the FAT32 file system does not support file permissions, however when I do ls -l on a FAT32 partition, ls -l shows that the files have permissions:



      -rw-r--r-- 1 john john 11 Mar 20 15:43 file1.txt
      -rw-r--r-- 1 john john 5 Mar 20 15:49 file2.txt


      Why is ls -l displaying the permissions of files?







      linux permissions filesystems fat fat32






      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      user342731 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.











      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      user342731 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.









      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 17 mins ago









      psmears

      44728




      44728






      New contributor




      user342731 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.









      asked yesterday









      user342731user342731

      1013




      1013




      New contributor




      user342731 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.





      New contributor





      user342731 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.






      user342731 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.




















          3 Answers
          3






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          46














          The filesystem as stored on disk doesn't store file permissions, but the filesystem driver has to provide them to the operating system since they are an integral part of the Unix filesystem concept(*).



          So, the driver fakes some permissions, same ones for all files. The permissions along with the files' owner and group are configurable at mount time. See "Mount options for fat" in the mount(8) man page.



          (* Consider what would happen if a file didn't have any permission bits at all? Would it be the same as 0777, i.e. access to all; or the same as 0000, i.e. no access to anyone? But both of those are file permissions, so why not show them? Or do something more useful and set some sensible permissions.)






          share|improve this answer


















          • 4





            And the reason it does fake the permissions is that otherwise ls, and any other program that looked at file permissions (even just your code trying to read a file) would have to have the logic to handle all the different file system organizations built in.

            – jamesqf
            yesterday






          • 4





            @jamesqf, yes, and even the system call interfaces don't have the option of "not having permissions", since the permissions have always been there. (That was what I was thinking when I wrote they're an "integral part".) Therefore, the permissions always shall be there, too, and things like ACLs are made so as to keep them meaningful.

            – ilkkachu
            yesterday











          • I've usually seen mode 777 for all files in FAT filesystems (FAT16 with an old driver, at least).

            – forest
            5 hours ago


















          14














          But the files do have permissions. User john has RW access, while some random user only has read access. These permissions didn’t come from the filesystem itself but rather from mount options (-o uid/gid/umask), which doesn’t make them any less real.



          You could have multiple vfat partitions mounted with different options and you could use ls to determine what those options were. You could even use mount --bind to have a single directory contain files from different vfat partitions, and ls would correctly show what permissions have been specified for each file.






          share|improve this answer






























            4














            ls doesn't know about FAT32, it only knows about the Virtual Filesystem (VFS) interface exposed by the kernel with POSIX open / readdir / stat system calls.



            Linux doesn't support the concept of files that don't have user/group/other permission bits, struct stat simply contains a mode_t st_mode; member (and uid, gid members) that the kernel must fill out when ls -l makes stat(2) system calls.



            There's no special code that means "not available" or "not applicable" for any of those fields, so the kernel's vfat driver must make something up. FAT16/FAT32 does have a read-only flag, but otherwise the owner/group come from mount options, and so does a umask.






            share|improve this answer






















              Your Answer








              StackExchange.ready(function()
              var channelOptions =
              tags: "".split(" "),
              id: "106"
              ;
              initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

              StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
              // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
              if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
              StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
              createEditor();
              );

              else
              createEditor();

              );

              function createEditor()
              StackExchange.prepareEditor(
              heartbeatType: 'answer',
              autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
              convertImagesToLinks: false,
              noModals: true,
              showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
              reputationToPostImages: null,
              bindNavPrevention: true,
              postfix: "",
              imageUploader:
              brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
              contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
              allowUrls: true
              ,
              onDemand: true,
              discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
              ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
              );



              );






              user342731 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









              draft saved

              draft discarded


















              StackExchange.ready(
              function ()
              StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2funix.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f507441%2fwhy-is-the-ls-command-showing-permissions-of-files-in-a-fat32-partition%23new-answer', 'question_page');

              );

              Post as a guest















              Required, but never shown

























              3 Answers
              3






              active

              oldest

              votes








              3 Answers
              3






              active

              oldest

              votes









              active

              oldest

              votes






              active

              oldest

              votes









              46














              The filesystem as stored on disk doesn't store file permissions, but the filesystem driver has to provide them to the operating system since they are an integral part of the Unix filesystem concept(*).



              So, the driver fakes some permissions, same ones for all files. The permissions along with the files' owner and group are configurable at mount time. See "Mount options for fat" in the mount(8) man page.



              (* Consider what would happen if a file didn't have any permission bits at all? Would it be the same as 0777, i.e. access to all; or the same as 0000, i.e. no access to anyone? But both of those are file permissions, so why not show them? Or do something more useful and set some sensible permissions.)






              share|improve this answer


















              • 4





                And the reason it does fake the permissions is that otherwise ls, and any other program that looked at file permissions (even just your code trying to read a file) would have to have the logic to handle all the different file system organizations built in.

                – jamesqf
                yesterday






              • 4





                @jamesqf, yes, and even the system call interfaces don't have the option of "not having permissions", since the permissions have always been there. (That was what I was thinking when I wrote they're an "integral part".) Therefore, the permissions always shall be there, too, and things like ACLs are made so as to keep them meaningful.

                – ilkkachu
                yesterday











              • I've usually seen mode 777 for all files in FAT filesystems (FAT16 with an old driver, at least).

                – forest
                5 hours ago















              46














              The filesystem as stored on disk doesn't store file permissions, but the filesystem driver has to provide them to the operating system since they are an integral part of the Unix filesystem concept(*).



              So, the driver fakes some permissions, same ones for all files. The permissions along with the files' owner and group are configurable at mount time. See "Mount options for fat" in the mount(8) man page.



              (* Consider what would happen if a file didn't have any permission bits at all? Would it be the same as 0777, i.e. access to all; or the same as 0000, i.e. no access to anyone? But both of those are file permissions, so why not show them? Or do something more useful and set some sensible permissions.)






              share|improve this answer


















              • 4





                And the reason it does fake the permissions is that otherwise ls, and any other program that looked at file permissions (even just your code trying to read a file) would have to have the logic to handle all the different file system organizations built in.

                – jamesqf
                yesterday






              • 4





                @jamesqf, yes, and even the system call interfaces don't have the option of "not having permissions", since the permissions have always been there. (That was what I was thinking when I wrote they're an "integral part".) Therefore, the permissions always shall be there, too, and things like ACLs are made so as to keep them meaningful.

                – ilkkachu
                yesterday











              • I've usually seen mode 777 for all files in FAT filesystems (FAT16 with an old driver, at least).

                – forest
                5 hours ago













              46












              46








              46







              The filesystem as stored on disk doesn't store file permissions, but the filesystem driver has to provide them to the operating system since they are an integral part of the Unix filesystem concept(*).



              So, the driver fakes some permissions, same ones for all files. The permissions along with the files' owner and group are configurable at mount time. See "Mount options for fat" in the mount(8) man page.



              (* Consider what would happen if a file didn't have any permission bits at all? Would it be the same as 0777, i.e. access to all; or the same as 0000, i.e. no access to anyone? But both of those are file permissions, so why not show them? Or do something more useful and set some sensible permissions.)






              share|improve this answer













              The filesystem as stored on disk doesn't store file permissions, but the filesystem driver has to provide them to the operating system since they are an integral part of the Unix filesystem concept(*).



              So, the driver fakes some permissions, same ones for all files. The permissions along with the files' owner and group are configurable at mount time. See "Mount options for fat" in the mount(8) man page.



              (* Consider what would happen if a file didn't have any permission bits at all? Would it be the same as 0777, i.e. access to all; or the same as 0000, i.e. no access to anyone? But both of those are file permissions, so why not show them? Or do something more useful and set some sensible permissions.)







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered yesterday









              ilkkachuilkkachu

              62.1k10103179




              62.1k10103179







              • 4





                And the reason it does fake the permissions is that otherwise ls, and any other program that looked at file permissions (even just your code trying to read a file) would have to have the logic to handle all the different file system organizations built in.

                – jamesqf
                yesterday






              • 4





                @jamesqf, yes, and even the system call interfaces don't have the option of "not having permissions", since the permissions have always been there. (That was what I was thinking when I wrote they're an "integral part".) Therefore, the permissions always shall be there, too, and things like ACLs are made so as to keep them meaningful.

                – ilkkachu
                yesterday











              • I've usually seen mode 777 for all files in FAT filesystems (FAT16 with an old driver, at least).

                – forest
                5 hours ago












              • 4





                And the reason it does fake the permissions is that otherwise ls, and any other program that looked at file permissions (even just your code trying to read a file) would have to have the logic to handle all the different file system organizations built in.

                – jamesqf
                yesterday






              • 4





                @jamesqf, yes, and even the system call interfaces don't have the option of "not having permissions", since the permissions have always been there. (That was what I was thinking when I wrote they're an "integral part".) Therefore, the permissions always shall be there, too, and things like ACLs are made so as to keep them meaningful.

                – ilkkachu
                yesterday











              • I've usually seen mode 777 for all files in FAT filesystems (FAT16 with an old driver, at least).

                – forest
                5 hours ago







              4




              4





              And the reason it does fake the permissions is that otherwise ls, and any other program that looked at file permissions (even just your code trying to read a file) would have to have the logic to handle all the different file system organizations built in.

              – jamesqf
              yesterday





              And the reason it does fake the permissions is that otherwise ls, and any other program that looked at file permissions (even just your code trying to read a file) would have to have the logic to handle all the different file system organizations built in.

              – jamesqf
              yesterday




              4




              4





              @jamesqf, yes, and even the system call interfaces don't have the option of "not having permissions", since the permissions have always been there. (That was what I was thinking when I wrote they're an "integral part".) Therefore, the permissions always shall be there, too, and things like ACLs are made so as to keep them meaningful.

              – ilkkachu
              yesterday





              @jamesqf, yes, and even the system call interfaces don't have the option of "not having permissions", since the permissions have always been there. (That was what I was thinking when I wrote they're an "integral part".) Therefore, the permissions always shall be there, too, and things like ACLs are made so as to keep them meaningful.

              – ilkkachu
              yesterday













              I've usually seen mode 777 for all files in FAT filesystems (FAT16 with an old driver, at least).

              – forest
              5 hours ago





              I've usually seen mode 777 for all files in FAT filesystems (FAT16 with an old driver, at least).

              – forest
              5 hours ago













              14














              But the files do have permissions. User john has RW access, while some random user only has read access. These permissions didn’t come from the filesystem itself but rather from mount options (-o uid/gid/umask), which doesn’t make them any less real.



              You could have multiple vfat partitions mounted with different options and you could use ls to determine what those options were. You could even use mount --bind to have a single directory contain files from different vfat partitions, and ls would correctly show what permissions have been specified for each file.






              share|improve this answer



























                14














                But the files do have permissions. User john has RW access, while some random user only has read access. These permissions didn’t come from the filesystem itself but rather from mount options (-o uid/gid/umask), which doesn’t make them any less real.



                You could have multiple vfat partitions mounted with different options and you could use ls to determine what those options were. You could even use mount --bind to have a single directory contain files from different vfat partitions, and ls would correctly show what permissions have been specified for each file.






                share|improve this answer

























                  14












                  14








                  14







                  But the files do have permissions. User john has RW access, while some random user only has read access. These permissions didn’t come from the filesystem itself but rather from mount options (-o uid/gid/umask), which doesn’t make them any less real.



                  You could have multiple vfat partitions mounted with different options and you could use ls to determine what those options were. You could even use mount --bind to have a single directory contain files from different vfat partitions, and ls would correctly show what permissions have been specified for each file.






                  share|improve this answer













                  But the files do have permissions. User john has RW access, while some random user only has read access. These permissions didn’t come from the filesystem itself but rather from mount options (-o uid/gid/umask), which doesn’t make them any less real.



                  You could have multiple vfat partitions mounted with different options and you could use ls to determine what those options were. You could even use mount --bind to have a single directory contain files from different vfat partitions, and ls would correctly show what permissions have been specified for each file.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered yesterday









                  Roman OdaiskyRoman Odaisky

                  2634




                  2634





















                      4














                      ls doesn't know about FAT32, it only knows about the Virtual Filesystem (VFS) interface exposed by the kernel with POSIX open / readdir / stat system calls.



                      Linux doesn't support the concept of files that don't have user/group/other permission bits, struct stat simply contains a mode_t st_mode; member (and uid, gid members) that the kernel must fill out when ls -l makes stat(2) system calls.



                      There's no special code that means "not available" or "not applicable" for any of those fields, so the kernel's vfat driver must make something up. FAT16/FAT32 does have a read-only flag, but otherwise the owner/group come from mount options, and so does a umask.






                      share|improve this answer



























                        4














                        ls doesn't know about FAT32, it only knows about the Virtual Filesystem (VFS) interface exposed by the kernel with POSIX open / readdir / stat system calls.



                        Linux doesn't support the concept of files that don't have user/group/other permission bits, struct stat simply contains a mode_t st_mode; member (and uid, gid members) that the kernel must fill out when ls -l makes stat(2) system calls.



                        There's no special code that means "not available" or "not applicable" for any of those fields, so the kernel's vfat driver must make something up. FAT16/FAT32 does have a read-only flag, but otherwise the owner/group come from mount options, and so does a umask.






                        share|improve this answer

























                          4












                          4








                          4







                          ls doesn't know about FAT32, it only knows about the Virtual Filesystem (VFS) interface exposed by the kernel with POSIX open / readdir / stat system calls.



                          Linux doesn't support the concept of files that don't have user/group/other permission bits, struct stat simply contains a mode_t st_mode; member (and uid, gid members) that the kernel must fill out when ls -l makes stat(2) system calls.



                          There's no special code that means "not available" or "not applicable" for any of those fields, so the kernel's vfat driver must make something up. FAT16/FAT32 does have a read-only flag, but otherwise the owner/group come from mount options, and so does a umask.






                          share|improve this answer













                          ls doesn't know about FAT32, it only knows about the Virtual Filesystem (VFS) interface exposed by the kernel with POSIX open / readdir / stat system calls.



                          Linux doesn't support the concept of files that don't have user/group/other permission bits, struct stat simply contains a mode_t st_mode; member (and uid, gid members) that the kernel must fill out when ls -l makes stat(2) system calls.



                          There's no special code that means "not available" or "not applicable" for any of those fields, so the kernel's vfat driver must make something up. FAT16/FAT32 does have a read-only flag, but otherwise the owner/group come from mount options, and so does a umask.







                          share|improve this answer












                          share|improve this answer



                          share|improve this answer










                          answered 10 hours ago









                          Peter CordesPeter Cordes

                          4,4531433




                          4,4531433




















                              user342731 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









                              draft saved

                              draft discarded


















                              user342731 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












                              user342731 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.











                              user342731 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.














                              Thanks for contributing an answer to Unix & Linux Stack Exchange!


                              • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                              But avoid


                              • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                              • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

                              To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                              draft saved


                              draft discarded














                              StackExchange.ready(
                              function ()
                              StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2funix.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f507441%2fwhy-is-the-ls-command-showing-permissions-of-files-in-a-fat32-partition%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                              );

                              Post as a guest















                              Required, but never shown





















































                              Required, but never shown














                              Required, but never shown












                              Required, but never shown







                              Required, but never shown

































                              Required, but never shown














                              Required, but never shown












                              Required, but never shown







                              Required, but never shown







                              Popular posts from this blog

                              Are there any AGPL-style licences that require source code modifications to be public? Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern) Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?Force derivative works to be publicAre there any GPL like licenses for Apple App Store?Do you violate the GPL if you provide source code that cannot be compiled?GPL - is it distribution to use libraries in an appliance loaned to customers?Distributing App for free which uses GPL'ed codeModifications of server software under GPL, with web/CLI interfaceDoes using an AGPLv3-licensed library prevent me from dual-licensing my own source code?Can I publish only select code under GPLv3 from a private project?Is there published precedent regarding the scope of covered work that uses AGPL software?If MIT licensed code links to GPL licensed code what should be the license of the resulting binary program?If I use a public API endpoint that has its source code licensed under AGPL in my app, do I need to disclose my source?

                              2013 GY136 Descoberta | Órbita | Referências Menu de navegação«List Of Centaurs and Scattered-Disk Objects»«List of Known Trans-Neptunian Objects»

                              Button changing it's text & action. Good or terrible? The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are Inchanging text on user mouseoverShould certain functions be “hard to find” for powerusers to discover?Custom liking function - do I need user login?Using different checkbox style for different checkbox behaviorBest Practices: Save and Exit in Software UIInteraction with remote validated formMore efficient UI to progress the user through a complicated process?Designing a popup notice for a gameShould bulk-editing functions be hidden until a table row is selected, or is there a better solution?Is it bad practice to disable (replace) the context menu?