Is Astrology considered scientific? The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are InIs our destiny predetermined? If yes, then why do our actions affect our karma?What year is it according to the Hindu Lunar Calendar?what is Nadi Astrology(nāḍi jyotiṣa) in Hindu astrologyDo any Hindu scriptures explain the science behind the astrology?Agastya's Palm Leaf AstrologyAre the planets of our solar system ( like Brihaspati, Shukra, Chandra etc) Devas or the abodes of the respective Devas?Is astrology even true? If it is true, then how these Grahas called Devata become dumb bodies of Moon, Star Sun, Mars etcIs palmistry a part of astrology?What are the astrological combinations in a horoscope that predict the subject will be atheistically inclined?Which time for buying online should be considered as muhurtha?

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Is Astrology considered scientific?



The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are InIs our destiny predetermined? If yes, then why do our actions affect our karma?What year is it according to the Hindu Lunar Calendar?what is Nadi Astrology(nāḍi jyotiṣa) in Hindu astrologyDo any Hindu scriptures explain the science behind the astrology?Agastya's Palm Leaf AstrologyAre the planets of our solar system ( like Brihaspati, Shukra, Chandra etc) Devas or the abodes of the respective Devas?Is astrology even true? If it is true, then how these Grahas called Devata become dumb bodies of Moon, Star Sun, Mars etcIs palmistry a part of astrology?What are the astrological combinations in a horoscope that predict the subject will be atheistically inclined?Which time for buying online should be considered as muhurtha?










2















It seems that astrological predictions are trials and error method? Can someone please give some examples that make sense? I have seen many people who are trained to read patris make mistakes which are very basic.










share|improve this question







New contributor




Diwesh kumar is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.















  • 1





    My friend. Astrology is not a science. It is based on nothing. Do not take this seriously. I have also seen people making things up about grahas and the sort.

    – Wikash_hindu
    4 hours ago












  • But there are some cases where they do predict the correct answer to certain questions, so that means there is some basis to it. I am just wondering if it the absence of skill to read astrological signs that makes wrong predictions or the method itself is wrong.

    – Diwesh kumar
    3 hours ago















2















It seems that astrological predictions are trials and error method? Can someone please give some examples that make sense? I have seen many people who are trained to read patris make mistakes which are very basic.










share|improve this question







New contributor




Diwesh kumar is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.















  • 1





    My friend. Astrology is not a science. It is based on nothing. Do not take this seriously. I have also seen people making things up about grahas and the sort.

    – Wikash_hindu
    4 hours ago












  • But there are some cases where they do predict the correct answer to certain questions, so that means there is some basis to it. I am just wondering if it the absence of skill to read astrological signs that makes wrong predictions or the method itself is wrong.

    – Diwesh kumar
    3 hours ago













2












2








2








It seems that astrological predictions are trials and error method? Can someone please give some examples that make sense? I have seen many people who are trained to read patris make mistakes which are very basic.










share|improve this question







New contributor




Diwesh kumar is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












It seems that astrological predictions are trials and error method? Can someone please give some examples that make sense? I have seen many people who are trained to read patris make mistakes which are very basic.







astrology






share|improve this question







New contributor




Diwesh kumar is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question







New contributor




Diwesh kumar is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




share|improve this question






New contributor




Diwesh kumar is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









asked 5 hours ago









Diwesh kumarDiwesh kumar

214




214




New contributor




Diwesh kumar is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





Diwesh kumar is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






Diwesh kumar is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







  • 1





    My friend. Astrology is not a science. It is based on nothing. Do not take this seriously. I have also seen people making things up about grahas and the sort.

    – Wikash_hindu
    4 hours ago












  • But there are some cases where they do predict the correct answer to certain questions, so that means there is some basis to it. I am just wondering if it the absence of skill to read astrological signs that makes wrong predictions or the method itself is wrong.

    – Diwesh kumar
    3 hours ago












  • 1





    My friend. Astrology is not a science. It is based on nothing. Do not take this seriously. I have also seen people making things up about grahas and the sort.

    – Wikash_hindu
    4 hours ago












  • But there are some cases where they do predict the correct answer to certain questions, so that means there is some basis to it. I am just wondering if it the absence of skill to read astrological signs that makes wrong predictions or the method itself is wrong.

    – Diwesh kumar
    3 hours ago







1




1





My friend. Astrology is not a science. It is based on nothing. Do not take this seriously. I have also seen people making things up about grahas and the sort.

– Wikash_hindu
4 hours ago






My friend. Astrology is not a science. It is based on nothing. Do not take this seriously. I have also seen people making things up about grahas and the sort.

– Wikash_hindu
4 hours ago














But there are some cases where they do predict the correct answer to certain questions, so that means there is some basis to it. I am just wondering if it the absence of skill to read astrological signs that makes wrong predictions or the method itself is wrong.

– Diwesh kumar
3 hours ago





But there are some cases where they do predict the correct answer to certain questions, so that means there is some basis to it. I am just wondering if it the absence of skill to read astrological signs that makes wrong predictions or the method itself is wrong.

– Diwesh kumar
3 hours ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















1














No, astrology would not be considered scientific. For something to be considered scientific, it would have to be based on the methods and principles of science which astrology is not.



In particular:



  1. astrological hypotheses are non-falsifiable.

  2. astrological experiments, interpretations, and conclusions do not follow the scientific method.

    • E.g. There are significant biases in astrological practice (selection bias, observational bias, confirmation bias etc.)


Note: I am not passing judgement on whether or not astrology or specific astrologers are right or wrong. I am just saying that it doesn't pass the criteria to be called scientific.






share|improve this answer























  • Thanks. Could you provide some examples of these biases?

    – Diwesh kumar
    3 hours ago


















1














No, astrology, Indian or Western, especially the part that deals with predictions, has no scientific basis. The scientific community considers it as pseudoscience i.e., it resembles science but is based on fallacious assumptions.



From An Indian Test of Indian Astrology by Jayant V. Narlikar:




Our Experiment



Our experiment was performed in the university city of Pune (formerly
Poona) about 160 km (100 miles) southeast of Mumbai (formerly Bom­bay)
in the state of Maharashtra, which is the second-largest in population
and third-largest in area of India’s twenty-five states. Pune itself
has a population of about
3.5 million.



For the experiment I was assisted by Professor Sudhakar Kunte from the
Department of Statistics at Pune Uni­versity, Narendra Dabholkar from
the Committee for the Eradication of Super­stitions, and Prakash
Ghatpande a former professional astrologer who has subsequently turned
into a critic of astrology.



Indian astrologers claim that they are able to tell intelligence from
a person’s horoscope.
So volunteers from the Committee for the
Eradication of Superstitions went to different schools and collected
the names of teenage school children rated by their teachers as
mentally bright. They also collected names from special schools for
the mentally handicapped. The destinies of these cases could hardly be
more different, so they were ideal for testing the above claim. From
the collected data we selected 100 bright and 100 mentally handicapped
cases
whose age distribution is shown on the next page.



Birth details were obtained from their parents because birth
certificates are rare in India. Professional Indian astrologers
routinely assume that birth details provided by parents are correct,
so our procedure followed the norm. Each horoscope (birth chart) was
calculated by one of us (PG) using commercial astrological software.
All horoscopes were coded and stored in safe custody by Professor
Kunte at Pune University, so that neither the experimenters (our group
of four) nor the astrologers could know the identities of the
individuals.



Conclusion



Our experiment with twenty-seven Indian astrologers judging forty
horoscopes each, and a team of astrologers judging 200 horoscopes,
showed that none were able to tell bright children from mentally
handicapped children better than chance
. Our results contradict the
claims of Indian astrologers and are consistent with the many tests of
Western astrologers. In summary, our results are firmly against Indian
astrology being considered as a science.




From Shawn Carlson's A double-blind test of astrology:




CONCLUSIONS



...



We are now in a position to argue a surprisingly strong case against natal astrology
as practiced by reputable astrologers. Great pains were taken to insure that the
experiment was unbiased and to make sure that astrology was given every reasonable
chance to succeed. It failed. Despite the fact that we worked with some of the best
astrologers in the country, recommended by the advising astrologers for their expertise
in astrology and in their ability to use the CPI, despite the fact that every reasonable
suggestion made by the advising astrologers was worked into the experiment, despite the
fact that the astrologers approved the design and predicted 50% as the "minimum" effect
they would expect to see, astrology failed to perform at a level better than chance.
Tested using double-blind methods, the astrologers' predictions proved to be wrong.
Their predicted connection between the positions of the planets and other astronomical
objects at the time of birth and the personalities of test subjects did not exist. The
experiment clearly refutes the astrological hypothesis.







share|improve this answer






























    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes








    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    1














    No, astrology would not be considered scientific. For something to be considered scientific, it would have to be based on the methods and principles of science which astrology is not.



    In particular:



    1. astrological hypotheses are non-falsifiable.

    2. astrological experiments, interpretations, and conclusions do not follow the scientific method.

      • E.g. There are significant biases in astrological practice (selection bias, observational bias, confirmation bias etc.)


    Note: I am not passing judgement on whether or not astrology or specific astrologers are right or wrong. I am just saying that it doesn't pass the criteria to be called scientific.






    share|improve this answer























    • Thanks. Could you provide some examples of these biases?

      – Diwesh kumar
      3 hours ago















    1














    No, astrology would not be considered scientific. For something to be considered scientific, it would have to be based on the methods and principles of science which astrology is not.



    In particular:



    1. astrological hypotheses are non-falsifiable.

    2. astrological experiments, interpretations, and conclusions do not follow the scientific method.

      • E.g. There are significant biases in astrological practice (selection bias, observational bias, confirmation bias etc.)


    Note: I am not passing judgement on whether or not astrology or specific astrologers are right or wrong. I am just saying that it doesn't pass the criteria to be called scientific.






    share|improve this answer























    • Thanks. Could you provide some examples of these biases?

      – Diwesh kumar
      3 hours ago













    1












    1








    1







    No, astrology would not be considered scientific. For something to be considered scientific, it would have to be based on the methods and principles of science which astrology is not.



    In particular:



    1. astrological hypotheses are non-falsifiable.

    2. astrological experiments, interpretations, and conclusions do not follow the scientific method.

      • E.g. There are significant biases in astrological practice (selection bias, observational bias, confirmation bias etc.)


    Note: I am not passing judgement on whether or not astrology or specific astrologers are right or wrong. I am just saying that it doesn't pass the criteria to be called scientific.






    share|improve this answer













    No, astrology would not be considered scientific. For something to be considered scientific, it would have to be based on the methods and principles of science which astrology is not.



    In particular:



    1. astrological hypotheses are non-falsifiable.

    2. astrological experiments, interpretations, and conclusions do not follow the scientific method.

      • E.g. There are significant biases in astrological practice (selection bias, observational bias, confirmation bias etc.)


    Note: I am not passing judgement on whether or not astrology or specific astrologers are right or wrong. I am just saying that it doesn't pass the criteria to be called scientific.







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered 4 hours ago









    hashablehashable

    1,6561118




    1,6561118












    • Thanks. Could you provide some examples of these biases?

      – Diwesh kumar
      3 hours ago

















    • Thanks. Could you provide some examples of these biases?

      – Diwesh kumar
      3 hours ago
















    Thanks. Could you provide some examples of these biases?

    – Diwesh kumar
    3 hours ago





    Thanks. Could you provide some examples of these biases?

    – Diwesh kumar
    3 hours ago











    1














    No, astrology, Indian or Western, especially the part that deals with predictions, has no scientific basis. The scientific community considers it as pseudoscience i.e., it resembles science but is based on fallacious assumptions.



    From An Indian Test of Indian Astrology by Jayant V. Narlikar:




    Our Experiment



    Our experiment was performed in the university city of Pune (formerly
    Poona) about 160 km (100 miles) southeast of Mumbai (formerly Bom­bay)
    in the state of Maharashtra, which is the second-largest in population
    and third-largest in area of India’s twenty-five states. Pune itself
    has a population of about
    3.5 million.



    For the experiment I was assisted by Professor Sudhakar Kunte from the
    Department of Statistics at Pune Uni­versity, Narendra Dabholkar from
    the Committee for the Eradication of Super­stitions, and Prakash
    Ghatpande a former professional astrologer who has subsequently turned
    into a critic of astrology.



    Indian astrologers claim that they are able to tell intelligence from
    a person’s horoscope.
    So volunteers from the Committee for the
    Eradication of Superstitions went to different schools and collected
    the names of teenage school children rated by their teachers as
    mentally bright. They also collected names from special schools for
    the mentally handicapped. The destinies of these cases could hardly be
    more different, so they were ideal for testing the above claim. From
    the collected data we selected 100 bright and 100 mentally handicapped
    cases
    whose age distribution is shown on the next page.



    Birth details were obtained from their parents because birth
    certificates are rare in India. Professional Indian astrologers
    routinely assume that birth details provided by parents are correct,
    so our procedure followed the norm. Each horoscope (birth chart) was
    calculated by one of us (PG) using commercial astrological software.
    All horoscopes were coded and stored in safe custody by Professor
    Kunte at Pune University, so that neither the experimenters (our group
    of four) nor the astrologers could know the identities of the
    individuals.



    Conclusion



    Our experiment with twenty-seven Indian astrologers judging forty
    horoscopes each, and a team of astrologers judging 200 horoscopes,
    showed that none were able to tell bright children from mentally
    handicapped children better than chance
    . Our results contradict the
    claims of Indian astrologers and are consistent with the many tests of
    Western astrologers. In summary, our results are firmly against Indian
    astrology being considered as a science.




    From Shawn Carlson's A double-blind test of astrology:




    CONCLUSIONS



    ...



    We are now in a position to argue a surprisingly strong case against natal astrology
    as practiced by reputable astrologers. Great pains were taken to insure that the
    experiment was unbiased and to make sure that astrology was given every reasonable
    chance to succeed. It failed. Despite the fact that we worked with some of the best
    astrologers in the country, recommended by the advising astrologers for their expertise
    in astrology and in their ability to use the CPI, despite the fact that every reasonable
    suggestion made by the advising astrologers was worked into the experiment, despite the
    fact that the astrologers approved the design and predicted 50% as the "minimum" effect
    they would expect to see, astrology failed to perform at a level better than chance.
    Tested using double-blind methods, the astrologers' predictions proved to be wrong.
    Their predicted connection between the positions of the planets and other astronomical
    objects at the time of birth and the personalities of test subjects did not exist. The
    experiment clearly refutes the astrological hypothesis.







    share|improve this answer



























      1














      No, astrology, Indian or Western, especially the part that deals with predictions, has no scientific basis. The scientific community considers it as pseudoscience i.e., it resembles science but is based on fallacious assumptions.



      From An Indian Test of Indian Astrology by Jayant V. Narlikar:




      Our Experiment



      Our experiment was performed in the university city of Pune (formerly
      Poona) about 160 km (100 miles) southeast of Mumbai (formerly Bom­bay)
      in the state of Maharashtra, which is the second-largest in population
      and third-largest in area of India’s twenty-five states. Pune itself
      has a population of about
      3.5 million.



      For the experiment I was assisted by Professor Sudhakar Kunte from the
      Department of Statistics at Pune Uni­versity, Narendra Dabholkar from
      the Committee for the Eradication of Super­stitions, and Prakash
      Ghatpande a former professional astrologer who has subsequently turned
      into a critic of astrology.



      Indian astrologers claim that they are able to tell intelligence from
      a person’s horoscope.
      So volunteers from the Committee for the
      Eradication of Superstitions went to different schools and collected
      the names of teenage school children rated by their teachers as
      mentally bright. They also collected names from special schools for
      the mentally handicapped. The destinies of these cases could hardly be
      more different, so they were ideal for testing the above claim. From
      the collected data we selected 100 bright and 100 mentally handicapped
      cases
      whose age distribution is shown on the next page.



      Birth details were obtained from their parents because birth
      certificates are rare in India. Professional Indian astrologers
      routinely assume that birth details provided by parents are correct,
      so our procedure followed the norm. Each horoscope (birth chart) was
      calculated by one of us (PG) using commercial astrological software.
      All horoscopes were coded and stored in safe custody by Professor
      Kunte at Pune University, so that neither the experimenters (our group
      of four) nor the astrologers could know the identities of the
      individuals.



      Conclusion



      Our experiment with twenty-seven Indian astrologers judging forty
      horoscopes each, and a team of astrologers judging 200 horoscopes,
      showed that none were able to tell bright children from mentally
      handicapped children better than chance
      . Our results contradict the
      claims of Indian astrologers and are consistent with the many tests of
      Western astrologers. In summary, our results are firmly against Indian
      astrology being considered as a science.




      From Shawn Carlson's A double-blind test of astrology:




      CONCLUSIONS



      ...



      We are now in a position to argue a surprisingly strong case against natal astrology
      as practiced by reputable astrologers. Great pains were taken to insure that the
      experiment was unbiased and to make sure that astrology was given every reasonable
      chance to succeed. It failed. Despite the fact that we worked with some of the best
      astrologers in the country, recommended by the advising astrologers for their expertise
      in astrology and in their ability to use the CPI, despite the fact that every reasonable
      suggestion made by the advising astrologers was worked into the experiment, despite the
      fact that the astrologers approved the design and predicted 50% as the "minimum" effect
      they would expect to see, astrology failed to perform at a level better than chance.
      Tested using double-blind methods, the astrologers' predictions proved to be wrong.
      Their predicted connection between the positions of the planets and other astronomical
      objects at the time of birth and the personalities of test subjects did not exist. The
      experiment clearly refutes the astrological hypothesis.







      share|improve this answer

























        1












        1








        1







        No, astrology, Indian or Western, especially the part that deals with predictions, has no scientific basis. The scientific community considers it as pseudoscience i.e., it resembles science but is based on fallacious assumptions.



        From An Indian Test of Indian Astrology by Jayant V. Narlikar:




        Our Experiment



        Our experiment was performed in the university city of Pune (formerly
        Poona) about 160 km (100 miles) southeast of Mumbai (formerly Bom­bay)
        in the state of Maharashtra, which is the second-largest in population
        and third-largest in area of India’s twenty-five states. Pune itself
        has a population of about
        3.5 million.



        For the experiment I was assisted by Professor Sudhakar Kunte from the
        Department of Statistics at Pune Uni­versity, Narendra Dabholkar from
        the Committee for the Eradication of Super­stitions, and Prakash
        Ghatpande a former professional astrologer who has subsequently turned
        into a critic of astrology.



        Indian astrologers claim that they are able to tell intelligence from
        a person’s horoscope.
        So volunteers from the Committee for the
        Eradication of Superstitions went to different schools and collected
        the names of teenage school children rated by their teachers as
        mentally bright. They also collected names from special schools for
        the mentally handicapped. The destinies of these cases could hardly be
        more different, so they were ideal for testing the above claim. From
        the collected data we selected 100 bright and 100 mentally handicapped
        cases
        whose age distribution is shown on the next page.



        Birth details were obtained from their parents because birth
        certificates are rare in India. Professional Indian astrologers
        routinely assume that birth details provided by parents are correct,
        so our procedure followed the norm. Each horoscope (birth chart) was
        calculated by one of us (PG) using commercial astrological software.
        All horoscopes were coded and stored in safe custody by Professor
        Kunte at Pune University, so that neither the experimenters (our group
        of four) nor the astrologers could know the identities of the
        individuals.



        Conclusion



        Our experiment with twenty-seven Indian astrologers judging forty
        horoscopes each, and a team of astrologers judging 200 horoscopes,
        showed that none were able to tell bright children from mentally
        handicapped children better than chance
        . Our results contradict the
        claims of Indian astrologers and are consistent with the many tests of
        Western astrologers. In summary, our results are firmly against Indian
        astrology being considered as a science.




        From Shawn Carlson's A double-blind test of astrology:




        CONCLUSIONS



        ...



        We are now in a position to argue a surprisingly strong case against natal astrology
        as practiced by reputable astrologers. Great pains were taken to insure that the
        experiment was unbiased and to make sure that astrology was given every reasonable
        chance to succeed. It failed. Despite the fact that we worked with some of the best
        astrologers in the country, recommended by the advising astrologers for their expertise
        in astrology and in their ability to use the CPI, despite the fact that every reasonable
        suggestion made by the advising astrologers was worked into the experiment, despite the
        fact that the astrologers approved the design and predicted 50% as the "minimum" effect
        they would expect to see, astrology failed to perform at a level better than chance.
        Tested using double-blind methods, the astrologers' predictions proved to be wrong.
        Their predicted connection between the positions of the planets and other astronomical
        objects at the time of birth and the personalities of test subjects did not exist. The
        experiment clearly refutes the astrological hypothesis.







        share|improve this answer













        No, astrology, Indian or Western, especially the part that deals with predictions, has no scientific basis. The scientific community considers it as pseudoscience i.e., it resembles science but is based on fallacious assumptions.



        From An Indian Test of Indian Astrology by Jayant V. Narlikar:




        Our Experiment



        Our experiment was performed in the university city of Pune (formerly
        Poona) about 160 km (100 miles) southeast of Mumbai (formerly Bom­bay)
        in the state of Maharashtra, which is the second-largest in population
        and third-largest in area of India’s twenty-five states. Pune itself
        has a population of about
        3.5 million.



        For the experiment I was assisted by Professor Sudhakar Kunte from the
        Department of Statistics at Pune Uni­versity, Narendra Dabholkar from
        the Committee for the Eradication of Super­stitions, and Prakash
        Ghatpande a former professional astrologer who has subsequently turned
        into a critic of astrology.



        Indian astrologers claim that they are able to tell intelligence from
        a person’s horoscope.
        So volunteers from the Committee for the
        Eradication of Superstitions went to different schools and collected
        the names of teenage school children rated by their teachers as
        mentally bright. They also collected names from special schools for
        the mentally handicapped. The destinies of these cases could hardly be
        more different, so they were ideal for testing the above claim. From
        the collected data we selected 100 bright and 100 mentally handicapped
        cases
        whose age distribution is shown on the next page.



        Birth details were obtained from their parents because birth
        certificates are rare in India. Professional Indian astrologers
        routinely assume that birth details provided by parents are correct,
        so our procedure followed the norm. Each horoscope (birth chart) was
        calculated by one of us (PG) using commercial astrological software.
        All horoscopes were coded and stored in safe custody by Professor
        Kunte at Pune University, so that neither the experimenters (our group
        of four) nor the astrologers could know the identities of the
        individuals.



        Conclusion



        Our experiment with twenty-seven Indian astrologers judging forty
        horoscopes each, and a team of astrologers judging 200 horoscopes,
        showed that none were able to tell bright children from mentally
        handicapped children better than chance
        . Our results contradict the
        claims of Indian astrologers and are consistent with the many tests of
        Western astrologers. In summary, our results are firmly against Indian
        astrology being considered as a science.




        From Shawn Carlson's A double-blind test of astrology:




        CONCLUSIONS



        ...



        We are now in a position to argue a surprisingly strong case against natal astrology
        as practiced by reputable astrologers. Great pains were taken to insure that the
        experiment was unbiased and to make sure that astrology was given every reasonable
        chance to succeed. It failed. Despite the fact that we worked with some of the best
        astrologers in the country, recommended by the advising astrologers for their expertise
        in astrology and in their ability to use the CPI, despite the fact that every reasonable
        suggestion made by the advising astrologers was worked into the experiment, despite the
        fact that the astrologers approved the design and predicted 50% as the "minimum" effect
        they would expect to see, astrology failed to perform at a level better than chance.
        Tested using double-blind methods, the astrologers' predictions proved to be wrong.
        Their predicted connection between the positions of the planets and other astronomical
        objects at the time of birth and the personalities of test subjects did not exist. The
        experiment clearly refutes the astrological hypothesis.








        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 3 hours ago









        sv.sv.

        14.2k848113




        14.2k848113













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