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How must one send away the mother bird?
Parashat Shemini + ParaShiluach HaKan and a possibly Tahor birdCan one still send away a bird if one does not need its eggs?Shiluach haKen and characterShiluach HaKen: why not “Hatzipor”Before taking eggs from the hens, does the farmer have to chase the hens away?Does one have to chase birds away from a nest in a tree that's partially on his own property?Shooing away mother birdsIs slaughtering the chick at the same time as removing it from the nest a possible loophole in the law about sending away the mother bird?Sending away the mother bird, mitzvah at the onset?Why is the mitzvah called “Shiluach haken”?
I was learning the halachos of Shiluach HaKen recently, and I was stunned to find that while the Shulchan Aruch discusses the halachos of the Mitzvah at length in YD 292, not once does he address how one must send away the bird. Checking other commentaries there yielded no results, either, as did checking the source in the final chapter of Chullin.
How must one send away the bird?
- Must one physically pick it up and throw it?
- May one yell at it or otherwise scare it away, without making physical contact with it?
- May one leave a trail of bread crumbs to lure the bird away from the nest, drawing it close rather than sending it away?
halacha shiluach-haken
asked 4 hours ago
DonielFDonielF
16.2k12584
add a comment |
I was learning the halachos of Shiluach HaKen recently, and I was stunned to find that while the Shulchan Aruch discusses the halachos of the Mitzvah at length in YD 292, not once does he address how one must send away the bird. Checking other commentaries there yielded no results, either, as did checking the source in the final chapter of Chullin.
How must one send away the bird?
- Must one physically pick it up and throw it?
- May one yell at it or otherwise scare it away, without making physical contact with it?
- May one leave a trail of bread crumbs to lure the bird away from the nest, drawing it close rather than sending it away?
halacha shiluach-haken
asked 4 hours ago
DonielFDonielF
16.2k12584
add a comment |
I was learning the halachos of Shiluach HaKen recently, and I was stunned to find that while the Shulchan Aruch discusses the halachos of the Mitzvah at length in YD 292, not once does he address how one must send away the bird. Checking other commentaries there yielded no results, either, as did checking the source in the final chapter of Chullin.
How must one send away the bird?
- Must one physically pick it up and throw it?
- May one yell at it or otherwise scare it away, without making physical contact with it?
- May one leave a trail of bread crumbs to lure the bird away from the nest, drawing it close rather than sending it away?
halacha shiluach-haken
asked 4 hours ago
DonielFDonielF
16.2k12584
I was learning the halachos of Shiluach HaKen recently, and I was stunned to find that while the Shulchan Aruch discusses the halachos of the Mitzvah at length in YD 292, not once does he address how one must send away the bird. Checking other commentaries there yielded no results, either, as did checking the source in the final chapter of Chullin.
How must one send away the bird?
- Must one physically pick it up and throw it?
- May one yell at it or otherwise scare it away, without making physical contact with it?
- May one leave a trail of bread crumbs to lure the bird away from the nest, drawing it close rather than sending it away?
halacha shiluach-haken
halacha shiluach-haken
asked 4 hours ago
DonielFDonielF
16.2k12584
asked 4 hours ago
DonielFDonielF
16.2k12584
edited 4 hours ago
DonielF
asked 4 hours ago
DonielFDonielF
16.2k12584
asked 4 hours ago
DonielFDonielF
16.2k12584
asked 4 hours ago
DonielFDonielF
16.2k12584
16.2k12584
add a comment |
add a comment |
1 Answer
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The Gemara (Chullin 141b) says:
במה משלחה רב הונא אמר ברגליה רב יהודה אמר באגפיה
and Rashi there brings two explanations: (1) Rav Huna says you have to grab it by the feet and send it off, while Rav Yehuda says you have to grab it by the wings and send it off. (2) Rav Huna says it's fine even if it can't fly, so long as it can walk away, while Rav Yehuda says it has to be able to fly.
So the first explanation would mean that you have to physically pick it up. The Rambam (Hilchos Shechita 13:5) paskens that way too: אוחז בכנפיה ומפריחה. The second explanation would mean that any way is fine, and since the Mechaber doesn't bring the Rambam's wording, presumably that's how he holds.
answered 2 hours ago
MeirMeir
1,20619
The Mechaber paskens that one isn’t allowed to clip the bird’s wings. Does that imply that the Mechaber paskens like Rav Yehuda over Rav Huna, according to your inference?
– DonielF
1 hour ago
@DonielF Probably. The Rambam is also paskening like Rav Yehuda (see Kesef Mishneh there), so the Mechaber may well agree with him on that point, while disagreeing on what Rav Yehuda meant. Biur Hagra 292:9 seems to say as much.
– Meir
46 mins ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
The Gemara (Chullin 141b) says:
במה משלחה רב הונא אמר ברגליה רב יהודה אמר באגפיה
and Rashi there brings two explanations: (1) Rav Huna says you have to grab it by the feet and send it off, while Rav Yehuda says you have to grab it by the wings and send it off. (2) Rav Huna says it's fine even if it can't fly, so long as it can walk away, while Rav Yehuda says it has to be able to fly.
So the first explanation would mean that you have to physically pick it up. The Rambam (Hilchos Shechita 13:5) paskens that way too: אוחז בכנפיה ומפריחה. The second explanation would mean that any way is fine, and since the Mechaber doesn't bring the Rambam's wording, presumably that's how he holds.
answered 2 hours ago
MeirMeir
1,20619
The Mechaber paskens that one isn’t allowed to clip the bird’s wings. Does that imply that the Mechaber paskens like Rav Yehuda over Rav Huna, according to your inference?
– DonielF
1 hour ago
@DonielF Probably. The Rambam is also paskening like Rav Yehuda (see Kesef Mishneh there), so the Mechaber may well agree with him on that point, while disagreeing on what Rav Yehuda meant. Biur Hagra 292:9 seems to say as much.
– Meir
46 mins ago
add a comment |
The Gemara (Chullin 141b) says:
במה משלחה רב הונא אמר ברגליה רב יהודה אמר באגפיה
and Rashi there brings two explanations: (1) Rav Huna says you have to grab it by the feet and send it off, while Rav Yehuda says you have to grab it by the wings and send it off. (2) Rav Huna says it's fine even if it can't fly, so long as it can walk away, while Rav Yehuda says it has to be able to fly.
So the first explanation would mean that you have to physically pick it up. The Rambam (Hilchos Shechita 13:5) paskens that way too: אוחז בכנפיה ומפריחה. The second explanation would mean that any way is fine, and since the Mechaber doesn't bring the Rambam's wording, presumably that's how he holds.
answered 2 hours ago
MeirMeir
1,20619
The Mechaber paskens that one isn’t allowed to clip the bird’s wings. Does that imply that the Mechaber paskens like Rav Yehuda over Rav Huna, according to your inference?
– DonielF
1 hour ago
@DonielF Probably. The Rambam is also paskening like Rav Yehuda (see Kesef Mishneh there), so the Mechaber may well agree with him on that point, while disagreeing on what Rav Yehuda meant. Biur Hagra 292:9 seems to say as much.
– Meir
46 mins ago
add a comment |
The Gemara (Chullin 141b) says:
במה משלחה רב הונא אמר ברגליה רב יהודה אמר באגפיה
and Rashi there brings two explanations: (1) Rav Huna says you have to grab it by the feet and send it off, while Rav Yehuda says you have to grab it by the wings and send it off. (2) Rav Huna says it's fine even if it can't fly, so long as it can walk away, while Rav Yehuda says it has to be able to fly.
So the first explanation would mean that you have to physically pick it up. The Rambam (Hilchos Shechita 13:5) paskens that way too: אוחז בכנפיה ומפריחה. The second explanation would mean that any way is fine, and since the Mechaber doesn't bring the Rambam's wording, presumably that's how he holds.
answered 2 hours ago
MeirMeir
1,20619
The Gemara (Chullin 141b) says:
במה משלחה רב הונא אמר ברגליה רב יהודה אמר באגפיה
and Rashi there brings two explanations: (1) Rav Huna says you have to grab it by the feet and send it off, while Rav Yehuda says you have to grab it by the wings and send it off. (2) Rav Huna says it's fine even if it can't fly, so long as it can walk away, while Rav Yehuda says it has to be able to fly.
So the first explanation would mean that you have to physically pick it up. The Rambam (Hilchos Shechita 13:5) paskens that way too: אוחז בכנפיה ומפריחה. The second explanation would mean that any way is fine, and since the Mechaber doesn't bring the Rambam's wording, presumably that's how he holds.
answered 2 hours ago
MeirMeir
1,20619
answered 2 hours ago
MeirMeir
1,20619
answered 2 hours ago
MeirMeir
1,20619
answered 2 hours ago
MeirMeir
1,20619
1,20619
The Mechaber paskens that one isn’t allowed to clip the bird’s wings. Does that imply that the Mechaber paskens like Rav Yehuda over Rav Huna, according to your inference?
– DonielF
1 hour ago
@DonielF Probably. The Rambam is also paskening like Rav Yehuda (see Kesef Mishneh there), so the Mechaber may well agree with him on that point, while disagreeing on what Rav Yehuda meant. Biur Hagra 292:9 seems to say as much.
– Meir
46 mins ago
add a comment |
The Mechaber paskens that one isn’t allowed to clip the bird’s wings. Does that imply that the Mechaber paskens like Rav Yehuda over Rav Huna, according to your inference?
– DonielF
1 hour ago
@DonielF Probably. The Rambam is also paskening like Rav Yehuda (see Kesef Mishneh there), so the Mechaber may well agree with him on that point, while disagreeing on what Rav Yehuda meant. Biur Hagra 292:9 seems to say as much.
– Meir
46 mins ago
The Mechaber paskens that one isn’t allowed to clip the bird’s wings. Does that imply that the Mechaber paskens like Rav Yehuda over Rav Huna, according to your inference?
– DonielF
1 hour ago
The Mechaber paskens that one isn’t allowed to clip the bird’s wings. Does that imply that the Mechaber paskens like Rav Yehuda over Rav Huna, according to your inference?
– DonielF
1 hour ago
@DonielF Probably. The Rambam is also paskening like Rav Yehuda (see Kesef Mishneh there), so the Mechaber may well agree with him on that point, while disagreeing on what Rav Yehuda meant. Biur Hagra 292:9 seems to say as much.
– Meir
46 mins ago
@DonielF Probably. The Rambam is also paskening like Rav Yehuda (see Kesef Mishneh there), so the Mechaber may well agree with him on that point, while disagreeing on what Rav Yehuda meant. Biur Hagra 292:9 seems to say as much.
– Meir
46 mins ago
add a comment |
