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Is there a measurement for the vocal speed of a song?
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Is there a measurement for the vocal speed of a song?
How should I control my voice while rapping?What is Tempo (Speed): Moderate 4What is the term for a song without a tempo?How to calculate the tempo of a song in numbers and find the Italian terms?Is there a tradeoff between vocal flexibility and safety?What is the vocal technique for Adrien's (Northlane) Low Scream?How to turn a vocal song into sheet musicWhat is the term for multiple simultaneous vocal lines?How long does a sound take that corresponds to a note at a certain tempo? What notations / conventions do influence it in detail?Converting Vocal Line into Guitar - Speed, Dynamics
I'm trying to find a way to measure the speed of a song from the perspective of singing/rapping. So far all I can find is BPM (beats per minute), however there are at least 2 issues with that:
- The BPM number depends on which beats are counted, quite often a website will report twice the BPM that I measure by myself.
- The BPM is not always related to the vocal speed. For example, "Thoughts Of A Dying Atheist" by Muse has 179 BPM but the singing part is quite slow, while "Break Ya Neck" by Busta Rhymes has only 83 BPM, but a... neck-breaking rapping speed.
Is there a more accurate measurement for the vocal speed? I'm thinking something along the lines of (continuous) syllables per minute, excluding the instrumental parts.
voice tempo
New contributor
add a comment |
I'm trying to find a way to measure the speed of a song from the perspective of singing/rapping. So far all I can find is BPM (beats per minute), however there are at least 2 issues with that:
- The BPM number depends on which beats are counted, quite often a website will report twice the BPM that I measure by myself.
- The BPM is not always related to the vocal speed. For example, "Thoughts Of A Dying Atheist" by Muse has 179 BPM but the singing part is quite slow, while "Break Ya Neck" by Busta Rhymes has only 83 BPM, but a... neck-breaking rapping speed.
Is there a more accurate measurement for the vocal speed? I'm thinking something along the lines of (continuous) syllables per minute, excluding the instrumental parts.
voice tempo
New contributor
part 1) perhaps you are miscounting beats. part 2) vocal speed does not have bpm
– Doktor Mayhem♦
7 hours ago
1
@DoktorMayhem 1) perhaps I am, perhaps the person who published the number on the website is; 2) that's my point, how to measure it?
– aditsu
7 hours ago
By the way, sometimes different websites show different numbers for the same song (usually one is double the other, but not always)
– aditsu
7 hours ago
Syllables/second? Words/min? Notes/second?
– user45266
6 hours ago
add a comment |
I'm trying to find a way to measure the speed of a song from the perspective of singing/rapping. So far all I can find is BPM (beats per minute), however there are at least 2 issues with that:
- The BPM number depends on which beats are counted, quite often a website will report twice the BPM that I measure by myself.
- The BPM is not always related to the vocal speed. For example, "Thoughts Of A Dying Atheist" by Muse has 179 BPM but the singing part is quite slow, while "Break Ya Neck" by Busta Rhymes has only 83 BPM, but a... neck-breaking rapping speed.
Is there a more accurate measurement for the vocal speed? I'm thinking something along the lines of (continuous) syllables per minute, excluding the instrumental parts.
voice tempo
New contributor
I'm trying to find a way to measure the speed of a song from the perspective of singing/rapping. So far all I can find is BPM (beats per minute), however there are at least 2 issues with that:
- The BPM number depends on which beats are counted, quite often a website will report twice the BPM that I measure by myself.
- The BPM is not always related to the vocal speed. For example, "Thoughts Of A Dying Atheist" by Muse has 179 BPM but the singing part is quite slow, while "Break Ya Neck" by Busta Rhymes has only 83 BPM, but a... neck-breaking rapping speed.
Is there a more accurate measurement for the vocal speed? I'm thinking something along the lines of (continuous) syllables per minute, excluding the instrumental parts.
voice tempo
voice tempo
New contributor
New contributor
New contributor
asked 7 hours ago
aditsuaditsu
1142
1142
New contributor
New contributor
part 1) perhaps you are miscounting beats. part 2) vocal speed does not have bpm
– Doktor Mayhem♦
7 hours ago
1
@DoktorMayhem 1) perhaps I am, perhaps the person who published the number on the website is; 2) that's my point, how to measure it?
– aditsu
7 hours ago
By the way, sometimes different websites show different numbers for the same song (usually one is double the other, but not always)
– aditsu
7 hours ago
Syllables/second? Words/min? Notes/second?
– user45266
6 hours ago
add a comment |
part 1) perhaps you are miscounting beats. part 2) vocal speed does not have bpm
– Doktor Mayhem♦
7 hours ago
1
@DoktorMayhem 1) perhaps I am, perhaps the person who published the number on the website is; 2) that's my point, how to measure it?
– aditsu
7 hours ago
By the way, sometimes different websites show different numbers for the same song (usually one is double the other, but not always)
– aditsu
7 hours ago
Syllables/second? Words/min? Notes/second?
– user45266
6 hours ago
part 1) perhaps you are miscounting beats. part 2) vocal speed does not have bpm
– Doktor Mayhem♦
7 hours ago
part 1) perhaps you are miscounting beats. part 2) vocal speed does not have bpm
– Doktor Mayhem♦
7 hours ago
1
1
@DoktorMayhem 1) perhaps I am, perhaps the person who published the number on the website is; 2) that's my point, how to measure it?
– aditsu
7 hours ago
@DoktorMayhem 1) perhaps I am, perhaps the person who published the number on the website is; 2) that's my point, how to measure it?
– aditsu
7 hours ago
By the way, sometimes different websites show different numbers for the same song (usually one is double the other, but not always)
– aditsu
7 hours ago
By the way, sometimes different websites show different numbers for the same song (usually one is double the other, but not always)
– aditsu
7 hours ago
Syllables/second? Words/min? Notes/second?
– user45266
6 hours ago
Syllables/second? Words/min? Notes/second?
– user45266
6 hours ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
There is the concept (not specific to music) of Speech Tempo. As you will see from the article, there is some degree of discussion about how this should be measured - for example, words per minute, syllables per second, or sounds per second. One could imagine even deeper levels of granularity - such as the inclusion of changes in pitch or timbre as sound 'features'.
Within rap music, it's common to measure rap performances in terms of syllables per second - such performances have been noted in the Guinness book of Records.
1
Interesting, it's hard to decide how to split things up, and the wide variety of singing styles makes that even trickier. I'm thinking about the ending of "Don't Cry" by Guns N' Roses for example, first the "Don't you ever cry-y-yy-i-i" then the famous endless "toniiiiiii...."
– aditsu
33 mins ago
1
I think syllables per second (or minute) can be a good reference though, for most songs. I wish it was more common to measure that too, not just the BPM.
– aditsu
26 mins ago
@aditsu -- the musical phrases played instruments frequently pass by more quickly than the BPM would indicate, i.e. as streams of eighth notes, sixteenth notes, or whatever. Voice is really just another musical instrument, and the same thing happens with the phrasing of lyrics. Why doesn't musical notation suffice for you? BPM only indicates something about the pulse of the music; staff notation shows you more about how the music is phrased. Yet nobody counts the equivalent of syllables per second for saxophone solos....
– David Bowling
18 mins ago
add a comment |
I humbly propose "maximum notes/second": Take the fastest part of the song and calculate the number of notes in that amount of time. If you have a passage that is super-fast in one part but really slow in another, it's way more important to know that you need to be able to rap/sing/play at that fastest part's speed to play the whole song. Compare the intro of Eminem's "Rap God" to the fast part. Obviously, to tackle that song, one needs to be able to rap as fast as the fastest part, not just the average of the whole song.
Disclaimer: No one uses this, because I made it up. I think it's way more useful than average notes/second.
That's a good point, and could make it easier to measure. I think the average is also relevant, and the fastest part should probably have a minimum length (e.g. at least 5 seconds).
– aditsu
1 hour ago
add a comment |
I don't think there's a useful single value that you can use to summarise a song like this. Instead, it's probably most useful to consider a combination of the BPM, the length of rhythmic subdivisions, and distribution of rhythms. For example, Break Ya Neck has a BPM of 166*, and semiquaver/quaver (16th note/8th note) rhythms sustained over the period of several bars. In comparison Thoughts Of A Dying Atheist is 179 BPM but the rhythms are mainly a mixture of crotchets (quarter notes) and longer notes, with no consecutive passages of 8th notes.
*I know you said 83 in your question but I think 166 is more accurate. When/why BPM values can vary by a factor of two would be a good topic for another question!
Funny, I actually looked it up, and multiple sources said 83, and my own count also confirmed that. But I also see how it can be counted as 166. Anyway, I hope you get my main point: some songs have lower BPM but faster lyrics/vocals.
– aditsu
15 mins ago
add a comment |
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3 Answers
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3 Answers
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There is the concept (not specific to music) of Speech Tempo. As you will see from the article, there is some degree of discussion about how this should be measured - for example, words per minute, syllables per second, or sounds per second. One could imagine even deeper levels of granularity - such as the inclusion of changes in pitch or timbre as sound 'features'.
Within rap music, it's common to measure rap performances in terms of syllables per second - such performances have been noted in the Guinness book of Records.
1
Interesting, it's hard to decide how to split things up, and the wide variety of singing styles makes that even trickier. I'm thinking about the ending of "Don't Cry" by Guns N' Roses for example, first the "Don't you ever cry-y-yy-i-i" then the famous endless "toniiiiiii...."
– aditsu
33 mins ago
1
I think syllables per second (or minute) can be a good reference though, for most songs. I wish it was more common to measure that too, not just the BPM.
– aditsu
26 mins ago
@aditsu -- the musical phrases played instruments frequently pass by more quickly than the BPM would indicate, i.e. as streams of eighth notes, sixteenth notes, or whatever. Voice is really just another musical instrument, and the same thing happens with the phrasing of lyrics. Why doesn't musical notation suffice for you? BPM only indicates something about the pulse of the music; staff notation shows you more about how the music is phrased. Yet nobody counts the equivalent of syllables per second for saxophone solos....
– David Bowling
18 mins ago
add a comment |
There is the concept (not specific to music) of Speech Tempo. As you will see from the article, there is some degree of discussion about how this should be measured - for example, words per minute, syllables per second, or sounds per second. One could imagine even deeper levels of granularity - such as the inclusion of changes in pitch or timbre as sound 'features'.
Within rap music, it's common to measure rap performances in terms of syllables per second - such performances have been noted in the Guinness book of Records.
1
Interesting, it's hard to decide how to split things up, and the wide variety of singing styles makes that even trickier. I'm thinking about the ending of "Don't Cry" by Guns N' Roses for example, first the "Don't you ever cry-y-yy-i-i" then the famous endless "toniiiiiii...."
– aditsu
33 mins ago
1
I think syllables per second (or minute) can be a good reference though, for most songs. I wish it was more common to measure that too, not just the BPM.
– aditsu
26 mins ago
@aditsu -- the musical phrases played instruments frequently pass by more quickly than the BPM would indicate, i.e. as streams of eighth notes, sixteenth notes, or whatever. Voice is really just another musical instrument, and the same thing happens with the phrasing of lyrics. Why doesn't musical notation suffice for you? BPM only indicates something about the pulse of the music; staff notation shows you more about how the music is phrased. Yet nobody counts the equivalent of syllables per second for saxophone solos....
– David Bowling
18 mins ago
add a comment |
There is the concept (not specific to music) of Speech Tempo. As you will see from the article, there is some degree of discussion about how this should be measured - for example, words per minute, syllables per second, or sounds per second. One could imagine even deeper levels of granularity - such as the inclusion of changes in pitch or timbre as sound 'features'.
Within rap music, it's common to measure rap performances in terms of syllables per second - such performances have been noted in the Guinness book of Records.
There is the concept (not specific to music) of Speech Tempo. As you will see from the article, there is some degree of discussion about how this should be measured - for example, words per minute, syllables per second, or sounds per second. One could imagine even deeper levels of granularity - such as the inclusion of changes in pitch or timbre as sound 'features'.
Within rap music, it's common to measure rap performances in terms of syllables per second - such performances have been noted in the Guinness book of Records.
answered 6 hours ago
topo mortotopo morto
26.6k246105
26.6k246105
1
Interesting, it's hard to decide how to split things up, and the wide variety of singing styles makes that even trickier. I'm thinking about the ending of "Don't Cry" by Guns N' Roses for example, first the "Don't you ever cry-y-yy-i-i" then the famous endless "toniiiiiii...."
– aditsu
33 mins ago
1
I think syllables per second (or minute) can be a good reference though, for most songs. I wish it was more common to measure that too, not just the BPM.
– aditsu
26 mins ago
@aditsu -- the musical phrases played instruments frequently pass by more quickly than the BPM would indicate, i.e. as streams of eighth notes, sixteenth notes, or whatever. Voice is really just another musical instrument, and the same thing happens with the phrasing of lyrics. Why doesn't musical notation suffice for you? BPM only indicates something about the pulse of the music; staff notation shows you more about how the music is phrased. Yet nobody counts the equivalent of syllables per second for saxophone solos....
– David Bowling
18 mins ago
add a comment |
1
Interesting, it's hard to decide how to split things up, and the wide variety of singing styles makes that even trickier. I'm thinking about the ending of "Don't Cry" by Guns N' Roses for example, first the "Don't you ever cry-y-yy-i-i" then the famous endless "toniiiiiii...."
– aditsu
33 mins ago
1
I think syllables per second (or minute) can be a good reference though, for most songs. I wish it was more common to measure that too, not just the BPM.
– aditsu
26 mins ago
@aditsu -- the musical phrases played instruments frequently pass by more quickly than the BPM would indicate, i.e. as streams of eighth notes, sixteenth notes, or whatever. Voice is really just another musical instrument, and the same thing happens with the phrasing of lyrics. Why doesn't musical notation suffice for you? BPM only indicates something about the pulse of the music; staff notation shows you more about how the music is phrased. Yet nobody counts the equivalent of syllables per second for saxophone solos....
– David Bowling
18 mins ago
1
1
Interesting, it's hard to decide how to split things up, and the wide variety of singing styles makes that even trickier. I'm thinking about the ending of "Don't Cry" by Guns N' Roses for example, first the "Don't you ever cry-y-yy-i-i" then the famous endless "toniiiiiii...."
– aditsu
33 mins ago
Interesting, it's hard to decide how to split things up, and the wide variety of singing styles makes that even trickier. I'm thinking about the ending of "Don't Cry" by Guns N' Roses for example, first the "Don't you ever cry-y-yy-i-i" then the famous endless "toniiiiiii...."
– aditsu
33 mins ago
1
1
I think syllables per second (or minute) can be a good reference though, for most songs. I wish it was more common to measure that too, not just the BPM.
– aditsu
26 mins ago
I think syllables per second (or minute) can be a good reference though, for most songs. I wish it was more common to measure that too, not just the BPM.
– aditsu
26 mins ago
@aditsu -- the musical phrases played instruments frequently pass by more quickly than the BPM would indicate, i.e. as streams of eighth notes, sixteenth notes, or whatever. Voice is really just another musical instrument, and the same thing happens with the phrasing of lyrics. Why doesn't musical notation suffice for you? BPM only indicates something about the pulse of the music; staff notation shows you more about how the music is phrased. Yet nobody counts the equivalent of syllables per second for saxophone solos....
– David Bowling
18 mins ago
@aditsu -- the musical phrases played instruments frequently pass by more quickly than the BPM would indicate, i.e. as streams of eighth notes, sixteenth notes, or whatever. Voice is really just another musical instrument, and the same thing happens with the phrasing of lyrics. Why doesn't musical notation suffice for you? BPM only indicates something about the pulse of the music; staff notation shows you more about how the music is phrased. Yet nobody counts the equivalent of syllables per second for saxophone solos....
– David Bowling
18 mins ago
add a comment |
I humbly propose "maximum notes/second": Take the fastest part of the song and calculate the number of notes in that amount of time. If you have a passage that is super-fast in one part but really slow in another, it's way more important to know that you need to be able to rap/sing/play at that fastest part's speed to play the whole song. Compare the intro of Eminem's "Rap God" to the fast part. Obviously, to tackle that song, one needs to be able to rap as fast as the fastest part, not just the average of the whole song.
Disclaimer: No one uses this, because I made it up. I think it's way more useful than average notes/second.
That's a good point, and could make it easier to measure. I think the average is also relevant, and the fastest part should probably have a minimum length (e.g. at least 5 seconds).
– aditsu
1 hour ago
add a comment |
I humbly propose "maximum notes/second": Take the fastest part of the song and calculate the number of notes in that amount of time. If you have a passage that is super-fast in one part but really slow in another, it's way more important to know that you need to be able to rap/sing/play at that fastest part's speed to play the whole song. Compare the intro of Eminem's "Rap God" to the fast part. Obviously, to tackle that song, one needs to be able to rap as fast as the fastest part, not just the average of the whole song.
Disclaimer: No one uses this, because I made it up. I think it's way more useful than average notes/second.
That's a good point, and could make it easier to measure. I think the average is also relevant, and the fastest part should probably have a minimum length (e.g. at least 5 seconds).
– aditsu
1 hour ago
add a comment |
I humbly propose "maximum notes/second": Take the fastest part of the song and calculate the number of notes in that amount of time. If you have a passage that is super-fast in one part but really slow in another, it's way more important to know that you need to be able to rap/sing/play at that fastest part's speed to play the whole song. Compare the intro of Eminem's "Rap God" to the fast part. Obviously, to tackle that song, one needs to be able to rap as fast as the fastest part, not just the average of the whole song.
Disclaimer: No one uses this, because I made it up. I think it's way more useful than average notes/second.
I humbly propose "maximum notes/second": Take the fastest part of the song and calculate the number of notes in that amount of time. If you have a passage that is super-fast in one part but really slow in another, it's way more important to know that you need to be able to rap/sing/play at that fastest part's speed to play the whole song. Compare the intro of Eminem's "Rap God" to the fast part. Obviously, to tackle that song, one needs to be able to rap as fast as the fastest part, not just the average of the whole song.
Disclaimer: No one uses this, because I made it up. I think it's way more useful than average notes/second.
answered 6 hours ago
user45266user45266
3,5951734
3,5951734
That's a good point, and could make it easier to measure. I think the average is also relevant, and the fastest part should probably have a minimum length (e.g. at least 5 seconds).
– aditsu
1 hour ago
add a comment |
That's a good point, and could make it easier to measure. I think the average is also relevant, and the fastest part should probably have a minimum length (e.g. at least 5 seconds).
– aditsu
1 hour ago
That's a good point, and could make it easier to measure. I think the average is also relevant, and the fastest part should probably have a minimum length (e.g. at least 5 seconds).
– aditsu
1 hour ago
That's a good point, and could make it easier to measure. I think the average is also relevant, and the fastest part should probably have a minimum length (e.g. at least 5 seconds).
– aditsu
1 hour ago
add a comment |
I don't think there's a useful single value that you can use to summarise a song like this. Instead, it's probably most useful to consider a combination of the BPM, the length of rhythmic subdivisions, and distribution of rhythms. For example, Break Ya Neck has a BPM of 166*, and semiquaver/quaver (16th note/8th note) rhythms sustained over the period of several bars. In comparison Thoughts Of A Dying Atheist is 179 BPM but the rhythms are mainly a mixture of crotchets (quarter notes) and longer notes, with no consecutive passages of 8th notes.
*I know you said 83 in your question but I think 166 is more accurate. When/why BPM values can vary by a factor of two would be a good topic for another question!
Funny, I actually looked it up, and multiple sources said 83, and my own count also confirmed that. But I also see how it can be counted as 166. Anyway, I hope you get my main point: some songs have lower BPM but faster lyrics/vocals.
– aditsu
15 mins ago
add a comment |
I don't think there's a useful single value that you can use to summarise a song like this. Instead, it's probably most useful to consider a combination of the BPM, the length of rhythmic subdivisions, and distribution of rhythms. For example, Break Ya Neck has a BPM of 166*, and semiquaver/quaver (16th note/8th note) rhythms sustained over the period of several bars. In comparison Thoughts Of A Dying Atheist is 179 BPM but the rhythms are mainly a mixture of crotchets (quarter notes) and longer notes, with no consecutive passages of 8th notes.
*I know you said 83 in your question but I think 166 is more accurate. When/why BPM values can vary by a factor of two would be a good topic for another question!
Funny, I actually looked it up, and multiple sources said 83, and my own count also confirmed that. But I also see how it can be counted as 166. Anyway, I hope you get my main point: some songs have lower BPM but faster lyrics/vocals.
– aditsu
15 mins ago
add a comment |
I don't think there's a useful single value that you can use to summarise a song like this. Instead, it's probably most useful to consider a combination of the BPM, the length of rhythmic subdivisions, and distribution of rhythms. For example, Break Ya Neck has a BPM of 166*, and semiquaver/quaver (16th note/8th note) rhythms sustained over the period of several bars. In comparison Thoughts Of A Dying Atheist is 179 BPM but the rhythms are mainly a mixture of crotchets (quarter notes) and longer notes, with no consecutive passages of 8th notes.
*I know you said 83 in your question but I think 166 is more accurate. When/why BPM values can vary by a factor of two would be a good topic for another question!
I don't think there's a useful single value that you can use to summarise a song like this. Instead, it's probably most useful to consider a combination of the BPM, the length of rhythmic subdivisions, and distribution of rhythms. For example, Break Ya Neck has a BPM of 166*, and semiquaver/quaver (16th note/8th note) rhythms sustained over the period of several bars. In comparison Thoughts Of A Dying Atheist is 179 BPM but the rhythms are mainly a mixture of crotchets (quarter notes) and longer notes, with no consecutive passages of 8th notes.
*I know you said 83 in your question but I think 166 is more accurate. When/why BPM values can vary by a factor of two would be a good topic for another question!
answered 1 hour ago
rlmsrlms
3461315
3461315
Funny, I actually looked it up, and multiple sources said 83, and my own count also confirmed that. But I also see how it can be counted as 166. Anyway, I hope you get my main point: some songs have lower BPM but faster lyrics/vocals.
– aditsu
15 mins ago
add a comment |
Funny, I actually looked it up, and multiple sources said 83, and my own count also confirmed that. But I also see how it can be counted as 166. Anyway, I hope you get my main point: some songs have lower BPM but faster lyrics/vocals.
– aditsu
15 mins ago
Funny, I actually looked it up, and multiple sources said 83, and my own count also confirmed that. But I also see how it can be counted as 166. Anyway, I hope you get my main point: some songs have lower BPM but faster lyrics/vocals.
– aditsu
15 mins ago
Funny, I actually looked it up, and multiple sources said 83, and my own count also confirmed that. But I also see how it can be counted as 166. Anyway, I hope you get my main point: some songs have lower BPM but faster lyrics/vocals.
– aditsu
15 mins ago
add a comment |
aditsu is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
aditsu is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
aditsu is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
aditsu is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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part 1) perhaps you are miscounting beats. part 2) vocal speed does not have bpm
– Doktor Mayhem♦
7 hours ago
1
@DoktorMayhem 1) perhaps I am, perhaps the person who published the number on the website is; 2) that's my point, how to measure it?
– aditsu
7 hours ago
By the way, sometimes different websites show different numbers for the same song (usually one is double the other, but not always)
– aditsu
7 hours ago
Syllables/second? Words/min? Notes/second?
– user45266
6 hours ago