Does the Bracer of Flying Daggers benefit from the Dueling Fighting style?Does Dueling Fighting Style apply to thrown weapons?What might be the downside of taking the Dueling fighting style over Great Weapon Fighting?What are the limitations on the “Dueling” fighting style for Fighters?Does Dueling Fighting Style apply to thrown weapons?Does the Dueling damage bonus not apply to Two-Handed Weapons?Since Thrown weapons aren't “ranged weapons” for the purpose of Archery, are they melee weapons for the purpose of Dueling?Could a Duelist Fighter wield Alchemist's Fire in their offhand and retain the Benefits of the Dueling fighting style?Is the Polearm Master Feat compatible with the Two-Weapon Fighting style?Would being hidden grant advantage on both Bracers of Flying Daggers attacks?Does the bonus damage from the Dueling fighting style apply when attacking with a shield as an improvised weapon, using the Tavern Brawler feat?How does the Dueling Fighting Style interact with Shocking Grasp and Booming Blade?

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Does the Bracer of Flying Daggers benefit from the Dueling Fighting style?

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Does the Bracer of Flying Daggers benefit from the Dueling Fighting style?


Does Dueling Fighting Style apply to thrown weapons?What might be the downside of taking the Dueling fighting style over Great Weapon Fighting?What are the limitations on the “Dueling” fighting style for Fighters?Does Dueling Fighting Style apply to thrown weapons?Does the Dueling damage bonus not apply to Two-Handed Weapons?Since Thrown weapons aren't “ranged weapons” for the purpose of Archery, are they melee weapons for the purpose of Dueling?Could a Duelist Fighter wield Alchemist's Fire in their offhand and retain the Benefits of the Dueling fighting style?Is the Polearm Master Feat compatible with the Two-Weapon Fighting style?Would being hidden grant advantage on both Bracers of Flying Daggers attacks?Does the bonus damage from the Dueling fighting style apply when attacking with a shield as an improvised weapon, using the Tavern Brawler feat?How does the Dueling Fighting Style interact with Shocking Grasp and Booming Blade?













9












$begingroup$


Dueling Fighting style




Dueling



When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.




The Bracer of Flying Daggers magic item (from Waterdeep: Dragon Heist, p. 190):




This armband appears to have thin daggers strapped to it. As an action, you can pull up to two magic daggers from the bracer and immediately hurl them, making a ranged attack with each dagger. A dagger vanishes if you don't hurl it right away, and the daggers disappear right after they hit or miss. The bracer never runs out of daggers.




If you have the Dueling fighting style, your hands are empty, and you activate the Bracer, do you get the damage bonus to both throws?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$







  • 5




    $begingroup$
    Related: Does Dueling Fighting Style apply to thrown weapons?
    $endgroup$
    – Sdjz
    5 hours ago















9












$begingroup$


Dueling Fighting style




Dueling



When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.




The Bracer of Flying Daggers magic item (from Waterdeep: Dragon Heist, p. 190):




This armband appears to have thin daggers strapped to it. As an action, you can pull up to two magic daggers from the bracer and immediately hurl them, making a ranged attack with each dagger. A dagger vanishes if you don't hurl it right away, and the daggers disappear right after they hit or miss. The bracer never runs out of daggers.




If you have the Dueling fighting style, your hands are empty, and you activate the Bracer, do you get the damage bonus to both throws?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$







  • 5




    $begingroup$
    Related: Does Dueling Fighting Style apply to thrown weapons?
    $endgroup$
    – Sdjz
    5 hours ago













9












9








9


1



$begingroup$


Dueling Fighting style




Dueling



When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.




The Bracer of Flying Daggers magic item (from Waterdeep: Dragon Heist, p. 190):




This armband appears to have thin daggers strapped to it. As an action, you can pull up to two magic daggers from the bracer and immediately hurl them, making a ranged attack with each dagger. A dagger vanishes if you don't hurl it right away, and the daggers disappear right after they hit or miss. The bracer never runs out of daggers.




If you have the Dueling fighting style, your hands are empty, and you activate the Bracer, do you get the damage bonus to both throws?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$




Dueling Fighting style




Dueling



When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.




The Bracer of Flying Daggers magic item (from Waterdeep: Dragon Heist, p. 190):




This armband appears to have thin daggers strapped to it. As an action, you can pull up to two magic daggers from the bracer and immediately hurl them, making a ranged attack with each dagger. A dagger vanishes if you don't hurl it right away, and the daggers disappear right after they hit or miss. The bracer never runs out of daggers.




If you have the Dueling fighting style, your hands are empty, and you activate the Bracer, do you get the damage bonus to both throws?







dnd-5e magic-items class-feature






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 50 mins ago







Ben Barden

















asked 5 hours ago









Ben BardenBen Barden

10.7k12762




10.7k12762







  • 5




    $begingroup$
    Related: Does Dueling Fighting Style apply to thrown weapons?
    $endgroup$
    – Sdjz
    5 hours ago












  • 5




    $begingroup$
    Related: Does Dueling Fighting Style apply to thrown weapons?
    $endgroup$
    – Sdjz
    5 hours ago







5




5




$begingroup$
Related: Does Dueling Fighting Style apply to thrown weapons?
$endgroup$
– Sdjz
5 hours ago




$begingroup$
Related: Does Dueling Fighting Style apply to thrown weapons?
$endgroup$
– Sdjz
5 hours ago










3 Answers
3






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6












$begingroup$

The question is whether thrown melee weapons qualify for Dueling or not



The description specifies that you pull daggers out of the armband (despite the logistically problems of sticking a full-sized dagger in an armband. I would have gone with knives had I designed it), which are on the melee weapon table and therefore are melee weapons (magical ones, no less). You obviously don't have another weapon in your other hand, so all we need to know is whether throwing a melee weapons counts as "wielding" the weapon.



There is no game-definition for "wielding", so we rely on common English to understand it. Google gives this definition for "wield":




hold and use (a weapon or tool).




Under that definition, and in my own opinion, I'd say that throwing a melee weapon counts as wielding it for the purposes of Dueling.



Crawford agrees that Dueling applies to thrown weapons, for what that is worth (keeping in mind his Sage Advice tweets are unofficial).



The related question Does Dueling Fighting Style apply to thrown weapons? has arguments for and against this ruling.




This is a poorly worded item



It is unclear whether you are drawing both daggers at once in both hands, or one at a time, or what. For some interpretations it would matter whether you are drawing both at once, or if you are throwing both at once, but this is mine: I assume you are drawing one, throwing one, then repeating. If you draw one, immediately hurl it, then draw another and immediately hurl it, you've still drawn 2 daggers and immediately hurled them.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    But Dueling says " a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons" wouldn't holding two daggers in one hand count (or one in each hand)? Or are you interpreting the arm band as letting you draw them one at a time?
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @Rubiksmoose I assumed you would draw-> throw 1 dagger at a time, up to twice. I could see an argument that Dueling would only apply to 1 dagger, or the 2nd if 2 are drawn, but that is too low level for me to really care about. Either apply it to the whole thing or not.
    $endgroup$
    – GreySage
    4 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Well, the text just says as an action you can draw up to two. So in your action you are drawing 1 or 2 daggers and then throwing them immediately.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    4 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    For what it's worth, DNDBeyond calls it the Bracer of Flying Daggers, no plural on "bracer". I believe calling the item "bracers" is a typo on the OP's part.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    4 hours ago


















3












$begingroup$

Only to one throw, not to both



Short of contradicting evidence, the Daggers summoned by the Bracers of Flying Daggers are in every respect identical to regular, PHB Daggers, except for the added properties that they vanish if not thrown or after they are thrown, and you are allowed to make two attacks with them regardless of your [in-]ability to use the Extra Attacks feature.



Because of this, a character would obviously benefit from their Dueling feature: Daggers are a one-handed weapon, can be thrown with a single hand, and thrown weapons benefit from the Dueling feature*, so you should get the Dueling bonus.



There is a catch though:




Dueling. When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.




If you draw two daggers from the bracer, you'd be holding two weapons, which violates the requirements of the feature. So at the very least, the first dagger thrown would not benefit.



The feature seems to imply that both are thrown at the same time, meaning neither dagger would benefit, but if your DM decides there's a "happens-before" relationship between the two attack rolls (i.e. one definitely happens before the other), then the second dagger would probably benefit.



This becomes moot, however, if you draw only a single dagger and throw it, since the requirements of Dueling would then be satisfied—and since the bracer says you may draw "up to two" daggers, you're fully allowed to draw only a single dagger.



* the top answer in that post contradicts RAI, and I recommend looking at the second answer instead.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @NautArch As I understand it, you're allowed to draw "up to two" daggers from the bracer, meaning you're allowed to draw (and then throw) only one if you so choose. As I said, if you draw two, then at least one of the daggers (and probably both) would not benefit from Dueling, but if you draw only one, then it's logical that you would benefit.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    Thanks for the clarification. This looks solid +1.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    4 hours ago


















3












$begingroup$

Dueling will benefit in this situation depending on the interpretation you use



The Dueling fighting style states:




When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.




Daggers appear on the melee weapon table and the dueling fighting style requires a melee weapon. It does not say that it requires a melee weapon attack. This sounds like we're on the right track but, in throwing the melee weapon to make a ranged attack, it is no longer in your hand.



However, at that point, you could pull a dagger with each hand/bracer and therefore still be holding a melee weapon in the offhand (and no other weapons). The problem is that the Dueling style says that the bonus only applies to the weapon you are holding in your hand when you make the attack "with that weapon."



So the offhand weapon can't confer the +2 bonus to the original weapon that made the attack and the end result is that Dueling can't apply to either attack made with the daggers if they are thrown. It can only apply to one of the daggers if it is used to make a melee attack and the second knife has not been retrieved or has been thrown previously (so that the off hand is empty).




That all said, Jeremy Crawford has stated in a (now unofficial) Tweet that you can interpret the Dueling to allow the bonus to apply to ranged attacks. This is outside of the PHB but it's from the lead rules designer, so one could make a case either way and have strong support for the argument. As such, it probably depends on which argument the DM finds more persuasive.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    That disagrees with the logic of the accepted answer to the linked question.
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    4 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    @BenBarden accepted only means it was most useful to OP. It doesn't automatically mean correct. FWIW the votes seem pretty close between the first and second answer. Hardly decisive I'd say. Also, neither directly means that the logic in this answer is incorrect.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @ben I think Miniman and I have the same interpretation but he concedes that Jeremy Crawford, a higher authority, allows the interpretation that it will work. I will add the same caveat to this answer.
    $endgroup$
    – Rykara
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @Rykara though as that ruling came from a tweet, no longer officially a higher power regardless. RAI at most.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    4 hours ago







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @rubik Can't edit my comment anymore but I meant "higher power than me," not the PHB, sorry. Thanks for editing to help clarify.
    $endgroup$
    – Rykara
    4 hours ago










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3 Answers
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3 Answers
3






active

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active

oldest

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active

oldest

votes









6












$begingroup$

The question is whether thrown melee weapons qualify for Dueling or not



The description specifies that you pull daggers out of the armband (despite the logistically problems of sticking a full-sized dagger in an armband. I would have gone with knives had I designed it), which are on the melee weapon table and therefore are melee weapons (magical ones, no less). You obviously don't have another weapon in your other hand, so all we need to know is whether throwing a melee weapons counts as "wielding" the weapon.



There is no game-definition for "wielding", so we rely on common English to understand it. Google gives this definition for "wield":




hold and use (a weapon or tool).




Under that definition, and in my own opinion, I'd say that throwing a melee weapon counts as wielding it for the purposes of Dueling.



Crawford agrees that Dueling applies to thrown weapons, for what that is worth (keeping in mind his Sage Advice tweets are unofficial).



The related question Does Dueling Fighting Style apply to thrown weapons? has arguments for and against this ruling.




This is a poorly worded item



It is unclear whether you are drawing both daggers at once in both hands, or one at a time, or what. For some interpretations it would matter whether you are drawing both at once, or if you are throwing both at once, but this is mine: I assume you are drawing one, throwing one, then repeating. If you draw one, immediately hurl it, then draw another and immediately hurl it, you've still drawn 2 daggers and immediately hurled them.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    But Dueling says " a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons" wouldn't holding two daggers in one hand count (or one in each hand)? Or are you interpreting the arm band as letting you draw them one at a time?
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @Rubiksmoose I assumed you would draw-> throw 1 dagger at a time, up to twice. I could see an argument that Dueling would only apply to 1 dagger, or the 2nd if 2 are drawn, but that is too low level for me to really care about. Either apply it to the whole thing or not.
    $endgroup$
    – GreySage
    4 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Well, the text just says as an action you can draw up to two. So in your action you are drawing 1 or 2 daggers and then throwing them immediately.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    4 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    For what it's worth, DNDBeyond calls it the Bracer of Flying Daggers, no plural on "bracer". I believe calling the item "bracers" is a typo on the OP's part.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    4 hours ago















6












$begingroup$

The question is whether thrown melee weapons qualify for Dueling or not



The description specifies that you pull daggers out of the armband (despite the logistically problems of sticking a full-sized dagger in an armband. I would have gone with knives had I designed it), which are on the melee weapon table and therefore are melee weapons (magical ones, no less). You obviously don't have another weapon in your other hand, so all we need to know is whether throwing a melee weapons counts as "wielding" the weapon.



There is no game-definition for "wielding", so we rely on common English to understand it. Google gives this definition for "wield":




hold and use (a weapon or tool).




Under that definition, and in my own opinion, I'd say that throwing a melee weapon counts as wielding it for the purposes of Dueling.



Crawford agrees that Dueling applies to thrown weapons, for what that is worth (keeping in mind his Sage Advice tweets are unofficial).



The related question Does Dueling Fighting Style apply to thrown weapons? has arguments for and against this ruling.




This is a poorly worded item



It is unclear whether you are drawing both daggers at once in both hands, or one at a time, or what. For some interpretations it would matter whether you are drawing both at once, or if you are throwing both at once, but this is mine: I assume you are drawing one, throwing one, then repeating. If you draw one, immediately hurl it, then draw another and immediately hurl it, you've still drawn 2 daggers and immediately hurled them.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    But Dueling says " a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons" wouldn't holding two daggers in one hand count (or one in each hand)? Or are you interpreting the arm band as letting you draw them one at a time?
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @Rubiksmoose I assumed you would draw-> throw 1 dagger at a time, up to twice. I could see an argument that Dueling would only apply to 1 dagger, or the 2nd if 2 are drawn, but that is too low level for me to really care about. Either apply it to the whole thing or not.
    $endgroup$
    – GreySage
    4 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Well, the text just says as an action you can draw up to two. So in your action you are drawing 1 or 2 daggers and then throwing them immediately.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    4 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    For what it's worth, DNDBeyond calls it the Bracer of Flying Daggers, no plural on "bracer". I believe calling the item "bracers" is a typo on the OP's part.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    4 hours ago













6












6








6





$begingroup$

The question is whether thrown melee weapons qualify for Dueling or not



The description specifies that you pull daggers out of the armband (despite the logistically problems of sticking a full-sized dagger in an armband. I would have gone with knives had I designed it), which are on the melee weapon table and therefore are melee weapons (magical ones, no less). You obviously don't have another weapon in your other hand, so all we need to know is whether throwing a melee weapons counts as "wielding" the weapon.



There is no game-definition for "wielding", so we rely on common English to understand it. Google gives this definition for "wield":




hold and use (a weapon or tool).




Under that definition, and in my own opinion, I'd say that throwing a melee weapon counts as wielding it for the purposes of Dueling.



Crawford agrees that Dueling applies to thrown weapons, for what that is worth (keeping in mind his Sage Advice tweets are unofficial).



The related question Does Dueling Fighting Style apply to thrown weapons? has arguments for and against this ruling.




This is a poorly worded item



It is unclear whether you are drawing both daggers at once in both hands, or one at a time, or what. For some interpretations it would matter whether you are drawing both at once, or if you are throwing both at once, but this is mine: I assume you are drawing one, throwing one, then repeating. If you draw one, immediately hurl it, then draw another and immediately hurl it, you've still drawn 2 daggers and immediately hurled them.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$



The question is whether thrown melee weapons qualify for Dueling or not



The description specifies that you pull daggers out of the armband (despite the logistically problems of sticking a full-sized dagger in an armband. I would have gone with knives had I designed it), which are on the melee weapon table and therefore are melee weapons (magical ones, no less). You obviously don't have another weapon in your other hand, so all we need to know is whether throwing a melee weapons counts as "wielding" the weapon.



There is no game-definition for "wielding", so we rely on common English to understand it. Google gives this definition for "wield":




hold and use (a weapon or tool).




Under that definition, and in my own opinion, I'd say that throwing a melee weapon counts as wielding it for the purposes of Dueling.



Crawford agrees that Dueling applies to thrown weapons, for what that is worth (keeping in mind his Sage Advice tweets are unofficial).



The related question Does Dueling Fighting Style apply to thrown weapons? has arguments for and against this ruling.




This is a poorly worded item



It is unclear whether you are drawing both daggers at once in both hands, or one at a time, or what. For some interpretations it would matter whether you are drawing both at once, or if you are throwing both at once, but this is mine: I assume you are drawing one, throwing one, then repeating. If you draw one, immediately hurl it, then draw another and immediately hurl it, you've still drawn 2 daggers and immediately hurled them.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 4 hours ago

























answered 4 hours ago









GreySageGreySage

15.7k45396




15.7k45396







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    But Dueling says " a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons" wouldn't holding two daggers in one hand count (or one in each hand)? Or are you interpreting the arm band as letting you draw them one at a time?
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @Rubiksmoose I assumed you would draw-> throw 1 dagger at a time, up to twice. I could see an argument that Dueling would only apply to 1 dagger, or the 2nd if 2 are drawn, but that is too low level for me to really care about. Either apply it to the whole thing or not.
    $endgroup$
    – GreySage
    4 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Well, the text just says as an action you can draw up to two. So in your action you are drawing 1 or 2 daggers and then throwing them immediately.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    4 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    For what it's worth, DNDBeyond calls it the Bracer of Flying Daggers, no plural on "bracer". I believe calling the item "bracers" is a typo on the OP's part.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    4 hours ago












  • 2




    $begingroup$
    But Dueling says " a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons" wouldn't holding two daggers in one hand count (or one in each hand)? Or are you interpreting the arm band as letting you draw them one at a time?
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @Rubiksmoose I assumed you would draw-> throw 1 dagger at a time, up to twice. I could see an argument that Dueling would only apply to 1 dagger, or the 2nd if 2 are drawn, but that is too low level for me to really care about. Either apply it to the whole thing or not.
    $endgroup$
    – GreySage
    4 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Well, the text just says as an action you can draw up to two. So in your action you are drawing 1 or 2 daggers and then throwing them immediately.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    4 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    For what it's worth, DNDBeyond calls it the Bracer of Flying Daggers, no plural on "bracer". I believe calling the item "bracers" is a typo on the OP's part.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    4 hours ago







2




2




$begingroup$
But Dueling says " a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons" wouldn't holding two daggers in one hand count (or one in each hand)? Or are you interpreting the arm band as letting you draw them one at a time?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
4 hours ago





$begingroup$
But Dueling says " a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons" wouldn't holding two daggers in one hand count (or one in each hand)? Or are you interpreting the arm band as letting you draw them one at a time?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
4 hours ago













$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose I assumed you would draw-> throw 1 dagger at a time, up to twice. I could see an argument that Dueling would only apply to 1 dagger, or the 2nd if 2 are drawn, but that is too low level for me to really care about. Either apply it to the whole thing or not.
$endgroup$
– GreySage
4 hours ago




$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose I assumed you would draw-> throw 1 dagger at a time, up to twice. I could see an argument that Dueling would only apply to 1 dagger, or the 2nd if 2 are drawn, but that is too low level for me to really care about. Either apply it to the whole thing or not.
$endgroup$
– GreySage
4 hours ago












$begingroup$
Well, the text just says as an action you can draw up to two. So in your action you are drawing 1 or 2 daggers and then throwing them immediately.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
4 hours ago




$begingroup$
Well, the text just says as an action you can draw up to two. So in your action you are drawing 1 or 2 daggers and then throwing them immediately.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
4 hours ago




3




3




$begingroup$
For what it's worth, DNDBeyond calls it the Bracer of Flying Daggers, no plural on "bracer". I believe calling the item "bracers" is a typo on the OP's part.
$endgroup$
– Xirema
4 hours ago




$begingroup$
For what it's worth, DNDBeyond calls it the Bracer of Flying Daggers, no plural on "bracer". I believe calling the item "bracers" is a typo on the OP's part.
$endgroup$
– Xirema
4 hours ago













3












$begingroup$

Only to one throw, not to both



Short of contradicting evidence, the Daggers summoned by the Bracers of Flying Daggers are in every respect identical to regular, PHB Daggers, except for the added properties that they vanish if not thrown or after they are thrown, and you are allowed to make two attacks with them regardless of your [in-]ability to use the Extra Attacks feature.



Because of this, a character would obviously benefit from their Dueling feature: Daggers are a one-handed weapon, can be thrown with a single hand, and thrown weapons benefit from the Dueling feature*, so you should get the Dueling bonus.



There is a catch though:




Dueling. When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.




If you draw two daggers from the bracer, you'd be holding two weapons, which violates the requirements of the feature. So at the very least, the first dagger thrown would not benefit.



The feature seems to imply that both are thrown at the same time, meaning neither dagger would benefit, but if your DM decides there's a "happens-before" relationship between the two attack rolls (i.e. one definitely happens before the other), then the second dagger would probably benefit.



This becomes moot, however, if you draw only a single dagger and throw it, since the requirements of Dueling would then be satisfied—and since the bracer says you may draw "up to two" daggers, you're fully allowed to draw only a single dagger.



* the top answer in that post contradicts RAI, and I recommend looking at the second answer instead.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @NautArch As I understand it, you're allowed to draw "up to two" daggers from the bracer, meaning you're allowed to draw (and then throw) only one if you so choose. As I said, if you draw two, then at least one of the daggers (and probably both) would not benefit from Dueling, but if you draw only one, then it's logical that you would benefit.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    Thanks for the clarification. This looks solid +1.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    4 hours ago















3












$begingroup$

Only to one throw, not to both



Short of contradicting evidence, the Daggers summoned by the Bracers of Flying Daggers are in every respect identical to regular, PHB Daggers, except for the added properties that they vanish if not thrown or after they are thrown, and you are allowed to make two attacks with them regardless of your [in-]ability to use the Extra Attacks feature.



Because of this, a character would obviously benefit from their Dueling feature: Daggers are a one-handed weapon, can be thrown with a single hand, and thrown weapons benefit from the Dueling feature*, so you should get the Dueling bonus.



There is a catch though:




Dueling. When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.




If you draw two daggers from the bracer, you'd be holding two weapons, which violates the requirements of the feature. So at the very least, the first dagger thrown would not benefit.



The feature seems to imply that both are thrown at the same time, meaning neither dagger would benefit, but if your DM decides there's a "happens-before" relationship between the two attack rolls (i.e. one definitely happens before the other), then the second dagger would probably benefit.



This becomes moot, however, if you draw only a single dagger and throw it, since the requirements of Dueling would then be satisfied—and since the bracer says you may draw "up to two" daggers, you're fully allowed to draw only a single dagger.



* the top answer in that post contradicts RAI, and I recommend looking at the second answer instead.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @NautArch As I understand it, you're allowed to draw "up to two" daggers from the bracer, meaning you're allowed to draw (and then throw) only one if you so choose. As I said, if you draw two, then at least one of the daggers (and probably both) would not benefit from Dueling, but if you draw only one, then it's logical that you would benefit.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    Thanks for the clarification. This looks solid +1.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    4 hours ago













3












3








3





$begingroup$

Only to one throw, not to both



Short of contradicting evidence, the Daggers summoned by the Bracers of Flying Daggers are in every respect identical to regular, PHB Daggers, except for the added properties that they vanish if not thrown or after they are thrown, and you are allowed to make two attacks with them regardless of your [in-]ability to use the Extra Attacks feature.



Because of this, a character would obviously benefit from their Dueling feature: Daggers are a one-handed weapon, can be thrown with a single hand, and thrown weapons benefit from the Dueling feature*, so you should get the Dueling bonus.



There is a catch though:




Dueling. When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.




If you draw two daggers from the bracer, you'd be holding two weapons, which violates the requirements of the feature. So at the very least, the first dagger thrown would not benefit.



The feature seems to imply that both are thrown at the same time, meaning neither dagger would benefit, but if your DM decides there's a "happens-before" relationship between the two attack rolls (i.e. one definitely happens before the other), then the second dagger would probably benefit.



This becomes moot, however, if you draw only a single dagger and throw it, since the requirements of Dueling would then be satisfied—and since the bracer says you may draw "up to two" daggers, you're fully allowed to draw only a single dagger.



* the top answer in that post contradicts RAI, and I recommend looking at the second answer instead.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$



Only to one throw, not to both



Short of contradicting evidence, the Daggers summoned by the Bracers of Flying Daggers are in every respect identical to regular, PHB Daggers, except for the added properties that they vanish if not thrown or after they are thrown, and you are allowed to make two attacks with them regardless of your [in-]ability to use the Extra Attacks feature.



Because of this, a character would obviously benefit from their Dueling feature: Daggers are a one-handed weapon, can be thrown with a single hand, and thrown weapons benefit from the Dueling feature*, so you should get the Dueling bonus.



There is a catch though:




Dueling. When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.




If you draw two daggers from the bracer, you'd be holding two weapons, which violates the requirements of the feature. So at the very least, the first dagger thrown would not benefit.



The feature seems to imply that both are thrown at the same time, meaning neither dagger would benefit, but if your DM decides there's a "happens-before" relationship between the two attack rolls (i.e. one definitely happens before the other), then the second dagger would probably benefit.



This becomes moot, however, if you draw only a single dagger and throw it, since the requirements of Dueling would then be satisfied—and since the bracer says you may draw "up to two" daggers, you're fully allowed to draw only a single dagger.



* the top answer in that post contradicts RAI, and I recommend looking at the second answer instead.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 4 hours ago









XiremaXirema

21.2k263126




21.2k263126







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @NautArch As I understand it, you're allowed to draw "up to two" daggers from the bracer, meaning you're allowed to draw (and then throw) only one if you so choose. As I said, if you draw two, then at least one of the daggers (and probably both) would not benefit from Dueling, but if you draw only one, then it's logical that you would benefit.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    Thanks for the clarification. This looks solid +1.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    4 hours ago












  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @NautArch As I understand it, you're allowed to draw "up to two" daggers from the bracer, meaning you're allowed to draw (and then throw) only one if you so choose. As I said, if you draw two, then at least one of the daggers (and probably both) would not benefit from Dueling, but if you draw only one, then it's logical that you would benefit.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    Thanks for the clarification. This looks solid +1.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    4 hours ago







1




1




$begingroup$
@NautArch As I understand it, you're allowed to draw "up to two" daggers from the bracer, meaning you're allowed to draw (and then throw) only one if you so choose. As I said, if you draw two, then at least one of the daggers (and probably both) would not benefit from Dueling, but if you draw only one, then it's logical that you would benefit.
$endgroup$
– Xirema
4 hours ago





$begingroup$
@NautArch As I understand it, you're allowed to draw "up to two" daggers from the bracer, meaning you're allowed to draw (and then throw) only one if you so choose. As I said, if you draw two, then at least one of the daggers (and probably both) would not benefit from Dueling, but if you draw only one, then it's logical that you would benefit.
$endgroup$
– Xirema
4 hours ago













$begingroup$
Thanks for the clarification. This looks solid +1.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
4 hours ago




$begingroup$
Thanks for the clarification. This looks solid +1.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
4 hours ago











3












$begingroup$

Dueling will benefit in this situation depending on the interpretation you use



The Dueling fighting style states:




When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.




Daggers appear on the melee weapon table and the dueling fighting style requires a melee weapon. It does not say that it requires a melee weapon attack. This sounds like we're on the right track but, in throwing the melee weapon to make a ranged attack, it is no longer in your hand.



However, at that point, you could pull a dagger with each hand/bracer and therefore still be holding a melee weapon in the offhand (and no other weapons). The problem is that the Dueling style says that the bonus only applies to the weapon you are holding in your hand when you make the attack "with that weapon."



So the offhand weapon can't confer the +2 bonus to the original weapon that made the attack and the end result is that Dueling can't apply to either attack made with the daggers if they are thrown. It can only apply to one of the daggers if it is used to make a melee attack and the second knife has not been retrieved or has been thrown previously (so that the off hand is empty).




That all said, Jeremy Crawford has stated in a (now unofficial) Tweet that you can interpret the Dueling to allow the bonus to apply to ranged attacks. This is outside of the PHB but it's from the lead rules designer, so one could make a case either way and have strong support for the argument. As such, it probably depends on which argument the DM finds more persuasive.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    That disagrees with the logic of the accepted answer to the linked question.
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    4 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    @BenBarden accepted only means it was most useful to OP. It doesn't automatically mean correct. FWIW the votes seem pretty close between the first and second answer. Hardly decisive I'd say. Also, neither directly means that the logic in this answer is incorrect.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @ben I think Miniman and I have the same interpretation but he concedes that Jeremy Crawford, a higher authority, allows the interpretation that it will work. I will add the same caveat to this answer.
    $endgroup$
    – Rykara
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @Rykara though as that ruling came from a tweet, no longer officially a higher power regardless. RAI at most.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    4 hours ago







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @rubik Can't edit my comment anymore but I meant "higher power than me," not the PHB, sorry. Thanks for editing to help clarify.
    $endgroup$
    – Rykara
    4 hours ago















3












$begingroup$

Dueling will benefit in this situation depending on the interpretation you use



The Dueling fighting style states:




When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.




Daggers appear on the melee weapon table and the dueling fighting style requires a melee weapon. It does not say that it requires a melee weapon attack. This sounds like we're on the right track but, in throwing the melee weapon to make a ranged attack, it is no longer in your hand.



However, at that point, you could pull a dagger with each hand/bracer and therefore still be holding a melee weapon in the offhand (and no other weapons). The problem is that the Dueling style says that the bonus only applies to the weapon you are holding in your hand when you make the attack "with that weapon."



So the offhand weapon can't confer the +2 bonus to the original weapon that made the attack and the end result is that Dueling can't apply to either attack made with the daggers if they are thrown. It can only apply to one of the daggers if it is used to make a melee attack and the second knife has not been retrieved or has been thrown previously (so that the off hand is empty).




That all said, Jeremy Crawford has stated in a (now unofficial) Tweet that you can interpret the Dueling to allow the bonus to apply to ranged attacks. This is outside of the PHB but it's from the lead rules designer, so one could make a case either way and have strong support for the argument. As such, it probably depends on which argument the DM finds more persuasive.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    That disagrees with the logic of the accepted answer to the linked question.
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    4 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    @BenBarden accepted only means it was most useful to OP. It doesn't automatically mean correct. FWIW the votes seem pretty close between the first and second answer. Hardly decisive I'd say. Also, neither directly means that the logic in this answer is incorrect.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @ben I think Miniman and I have the same interpretation but he concedes that Jeremy Crawford, a higher authority, allows the interpretation that it will work. I will add the same caveat to this answer.
    $endgroup$
    – Rykara
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @Rykara though as that ruling came from a tweet, no longer officially a higher power regardless. RAI at most.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    4 hours ago







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @rubik Can't edit my comment anymore but I meant "higher power than me," not the PHB, sorry. Thanks for editing to help clarify.
    $endgroup$
    – Rykara
    4 hours ago













3












3








3





$begingroup$

Dueling will benefit in this situation depending on the interpretation you use



The Dueling fighting style states:




When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.




Daggers appear on the melee weapon table and the dueling fighting style requires a melee weapon. It does not say that it requires a melee weapon attack. This sounds like we're on the right track but, in throwing the melee weapon to make a ranged attack, it is no longer in your hand.



However, at that point, you could pull a dagger with each hand/bracer and therefore still be holding a melee weapon in the offhand (and no other weapons). The problem is that the Dueling style says that the bonus only applies to the weapon you are holding in your hand when you make the attack "with that weapon."



So the offhand weapon can't confer the +2 bonus to the original weapon that made the attack and the end result is that Dueling can't apply to either attack made with the daggers if they are thrown. It can only apply to one of the daggers if it is used to make a melee attack and the second knife has not been retrieved or has been thrown previously (so that the off hand is empty).




That all said, Jeremy Crawford has stated in a (now unofficial) Tweet that you can interpret the Dueling to allow the bonus to apply to ranged attacks. This is outside of the PHB but it's from the lead rules designer, so one could make a case either way and have strong support for the argument. As such, it probably depends on which argument the DM finds more persuasive.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$



Dueling will benefit in this situation depending on the interpretation you use



The Dueling fighting style states:




When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.




Daggers appear on the melee weapon table and the dueling fighting style requires a melee weapon. It does not say that it requires a melee weapon attack. This sounds like we're on the right track but, in throwing the melee weapon to make a ranged attack, it is no longer in your hand.



However, at that point, you could pull a dagger with each hand/bracer and therefore still be holding a melee weapon in the offhand (and no other weapons). The problem is that the Dueling style says that the bonus only applies to the weapon you are holding in your hand when you make the attack "with that weapon."



So the offhand weapon can't confer the +2 bonus to the original weapon that made the attack and the end result is that Dueling can't apply to either attack made with the daggers if they are thrown. It can only apply to one of the daggers if it is used to make a melee attack and the second knife has not been retrieved or has been thrown previously (so that the off hand is empty).




That all said, Jeremy Crawford has stated in a (now unofficial) Tweet that you can interpret the Dueling to allow the bonus to apply to ranged attacks. This is outside of the PHB but it's from the lead rules designer, so one could make a case either way and have strong support for the argument. As such, it probably depends on which argument the DM finds more persuasive.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 4 hours ago









Rubiksmoose

58.2k10283431




58.2k10283431










answered 4 hours ago









RykaraRykara

3,799835




3,799835











  • $begingroup$
    That disagrees with the logic of the accepted answer to the linked question.
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    4 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    @BenBarden accepted only means it was most useful to OP. It doesn't automatically mean correct. FWIW the votes seem pretty close between the first and second answer. Hardly decisive I'd say. Also, neither directly means that the logic in this answer is incorrect.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @ben I think Miniman and I have the same interpretation but he concedes that Jeremy Crawford, a higher authority, allows the interpretation that it will work. I will add the same caveat to this answer.
    $endgroup$
    – Rykara
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @Rykara though as that ruling came from a tweet, no longer officially a higher power regardless. RAI at most.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    4 hours ago







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @rubik Can't edit my comment anymore but I meant "higher power than me," not the PHB, sorry. Thanks for editing to help clarify.
    $endgroup$
    – Rykara
    4 hours ago
















  • $begingroup$
    That disagrees with the logic of the accepted answer to the linked question.
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    4 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    @BenBarden accepted only means it was most useful to OP. It doesn't automatically mean correct. FWIW the votes seem pretty close between the first and second answer. Hardly decisive I'd say. Also, neither directly means that the logic in this answer is incorrect.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @ben I think Miniman and I have the same interpretation but he concedes that Jeremy Crawford, a higher authority, allows the interpretation that it will work. I will add the same caveat to this answer.
    $endgroup$
    – Rykara
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @Rykara though as that ruling came from a tweet, no longer officially a higher power regardless. RAI at most.
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    4 hours ago







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @rubik Can't edit my comment anymore but I meant "higher power than me," not the PHB, sorry. Thanks for editing to help clarify.
    $endgroup$
    – Rykara
    4 hours ago















$begingroup$
That disagrees with the logic of the accepted answer to the linked question.
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
4 hours ago




$begingroup$
That disagrees with the logic of the accepted answer to the linked question.
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
4 hours ago




3




3




$begingroup$
@BenBarden accepted only means it was most useful to OP. It doesn't automatically mean correct. FWIW the votes seem pretty close between the first and second answer. Hardly decisive I'd say. Also, neither directly means that the logic in this answer is incorrect.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
4 hours ago





$begingroup$
@BenBarden accepted only means it was most useful to OP. It doesn't automatically mean correct. FWIW the votes seem pretty close between the first and second answer. Hardly decisive I'd say. Also, neither directly means that the logic in this answer is incorrect.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
4 hours ago













$begingroup$
@ben I think Miniman and I have the same interpretation but he concedes that Jeremy Crawford, a higher authority, allows the interpretation that it will work. I will add the same caveat to this answer.
$endgroup$
– Rykara
4 hours ago





$begingroup$
@ben I think Miniman and I have the same interpretation but he concedes that Jeremy Crawford, a higher authority, allows the interpretation that it will work. I will add the same caveat to this answer.
$endgroup$
– Rykara
4 hours ago













$begingroup$
@Rykara though as that ruling came from a tweet, no longer officially a higher power regardless. RAI at most.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
4 hours ago





$begingroup$
@Rykara though as that ruling came from a tweet, no longer officially a higher power regardless. RAI at most.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
4 hours ago





1




1




$begingroup$
@rubik Can't edit my comment anymore but I meant "higher power than me," not the PHB, sorry. Thanks for editing to help clarify.
$endgroup$
– Rykara
4 hours ago




$begingroup$
@rubik Can't edit my comment anymore but I meant "higher power than me," not the PHB, sorry. Thanks for editing to help clarify.
$endgroup$
– Rykara
4 hours ago

















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