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In predicate logic, does existential quantification (∃) include universal quantification (∀), i.e. can 'some' imply 'all'?

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In predicate logic, does existential quantification (∃) include universal quantification (∀), i.e. can 'some' imply 'all'?



Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)
Which kinds of Philosophy.SE questions should be taken from (or tolerated in)…Can someone clear up this semantic proof of quantification logic?How is First Order Logic complete but not decidable?A question about statements and conclusionWhat does the truth-value of a material implication represent?Why is this Statement correct: G implies ¬Contradiction?Russell's Paradox and the Law of Non-ContradictionIf an argument can be valid in one logical system, but invalid in another, are logical arguments “meaningful”?Predicate Logic - Existential EliminationPredicate Logic - Universal IntroductionIs Ross' paradox really a paradox?










1















I am having a discussion wether 'some' can also imply 'all'. The definition for some, 'an unspecified number or amount of people or things' seems to leave room for this interpretation.



Discussion follows on the following statements:



1. All newspaper readers are reasonable people.



2. Some newspaper readers are criminal.



The question is whether or not the statement:



Not all reasonable people are criminal



Is valid...










share|improve this question




























    1















    I am having a discussion wether 'some' can also imply 'all'. The definition for some, 'an unspecified number or amount of people or things' seems to leave room for this interpretation.



    Discussion follows on the following statements:



    1. All newspaper readers are reasonable people.



    2. Some newspaper readers are criminal.



    The question is whether or not the statement:



    Not all reasonable people are criminal



    Is valid...










    share|improve this question


























      1












      1








      1








      I am having a discussion wether 'some' can also imply 'all'. The definition for some, 'an unspecified number or amount of people or things' seems to leave room for this interpretation.



      Discussion follows on the following statements:



      1. All newspaper readers are reasonable people.



      2. Some newspaper readers are criminal.



      The question is whether or not the statement:



      Not all reasonable people are criminal



      Is valid...










      share|improve this question
















      I am having a discussion wether 'some' can also imply 'all'. The definition for some, 'an unspecified number or amount of people or things' seems to leave room for this interpretation.



      Discussion follows on the following statements:



      1. All newspaper readers are reasonable people.



      2. Some newspaper readers are criminal.



      The question is whether or not the statement:



      Not all reasonable people are criminal



      Is valid...







      logic quantification






      share|improve this question















      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 1 hour ago









      Eliran

      4,90231433




      4,90231433










      asked 1 hour ago









      6thsense6thsense

      404




      404




















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          4














          "Some" does not exclude "all", but you cannot deduce "all" from "some".



          Having said that, the above argument is not valid.



          From premises 1 and 2 we can derive :




          Some reasonable people are criminal




          that is equivalent to : Not all reasonable people are not criminal.






          share|improve this answer






























            3














            Rewrite the phrases in a more formal-like manner as



            1. For all x, N(x) implies R(x)



            2. There exists x, N(x) and C(x)



            And notice these do imply there are reasonable criminals, ie,



            There exists x, R(x) and C(x)



            Now, "Not all reasonable people are criminal" would be



            Not for all x, R(x) implies C(x)



            which is (classically) equivalent to



            There exists x, R(x) and not C(x)



            But it's easy to see one can construct a model with a single individual possessing the three predicates N, R and C, which satisfies the first three phrases, but not the last two






            share|improve this answer








            New contributor




            alkchf is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.




















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              2 Answers
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              active

              oldest

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              active

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              votes






              active

              oldest

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              4














              "Some" does not exclude "all", but you cannot deduce "all" from "some".



              Having said that, the above argument is not valid.



              From premises 1 and 2 we can derive :




              Some reasonable people are criminal




              that is equivalent to : Not all reasonable people are not criminal.






              share|improve this answer



























                4














                "Some" does not exclude "all", but you cannot deduce "all" from "some".



                Having said that, the above argument is not valid.



                From premises 1 and 2 we can derive :




                Some reasonable people are criminal




                that is equivalent to : Not all reasonable people are not criminal.






                share|improve this answer

























                  4












                  4








                  4







                  "Some" does not exclude "all", but you cannot deduce "all" from "some".



                  Having said that, the above argument is not valid.



                  From premises 1 and 2 we can derive :




                  Some reasonable people are criminal




                  that is equivalent to : Not all reasonable people are not criminal.






                  share|improve this answer













                  "Some" does not exclude "all", but you cannot deduce "all" from "some".



                  Having said that, the above argument is not valid.



                  From premises 1 and 2 we can derive :




                  Some reasonable people are criminal




                  that is equivalent to : Not all reasonable people are not criminal.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 1 hour ago









                  Mauro ALLEGRANZAMauro ALLEGRANZA

                  29.8k22065




                  29.8k22065





















                      3














                      Rewrite the phrases in a more formal-like manner as



                      1. For all x, N(x) implies R(x)



                      2. There exists x, N(x) and C(x)



                      And notice these do imply there are reasonable criminals, ie,



                      There exists x, R(x) and C(x)



                      Now, "Not all reasonable people are criminal" would be



                      Not for all x, R(x) implies C(x)



                      which is (classically) equivalent to



                      There exists x, R(x) and not C(x)



                      But it's easy to see one can construct a model with a single individual possessing the three predicates N, R and C, which satisfies the first three phrases, but not the last two






                      share|improve this answer








                      New contributor




                      alkchf is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.
























                        3














                        Rewrite the phrases in a more formal-like manner as



                        1. For all x, N(x) implies R(x)



                        2. There exists x, N(x) and C(x)



                        And notice these do imply there are reasonable criminals, ie,



                        There exists x, R(x) and C(x)



                        Now, "Not all reasonable people are criminal" would be



                        Not for all x, R(x) implies C(x)



                        which is (classically) equivalent to



                        There exists x, R(x) and not C(x)



                        But it's easy to see one can construct a model with a single individual possessing the three predicates N, R and C, which satisfies the first three phrases, but not the last two






                        share|improve this answer








                        New contributor




                        alkchf is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                        Check out our Code of Conduct.






















                          3












                          3








                          3







                          Rewrite the phrases in a more formal-like manner as



                          1. For all x, N(x) implies R(x)



                          2. There exists x, N(x) and C(x)



                          And notice these do imply there are reasonable criminals, ie,



                          There exists x, R(x) and C(x)



                          Now, "Not all reasonable people are criminal" would be



                          Not for all x, R(x) implies C(x)



                          which is (classically) equivalent to



                          There exists x, R(x) and not C(x)



                          But it's easy to see one can construct a model with a single individual possessing the three predicates N, R and C, which satisfies the first three phrases, but not the last two






                          share|improve this answer








                          New contributor




                          alkchf is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.










                          Rewrite the phrases in a more formal-like manner as



                          1. For all x, N(x) implies R(x)



                          2. There exists x, N(x) and C(x)



                          And notice these do imply there are reasonable criminals, ie,



                          There exists x, R(x) and C(x)



                          Now, "Not all reasonable people are criminal" would be



                          Not for all x, R(x) implies C(x)



                          which is (classically) equivalent to



                          There exists x, R(x) and not C(x)



                          But it's easy to see one can construct a model with a single individual possessing the three predicates N, R and C, which satisfies the first three phrases, but not the last two







                          share|improve this answer








                          New contributor




                          alkchf is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.









                          share|improve this answer



                          share|improve this answer






                          New contributor




                          alkchf is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.









                          answered 1 hour ago









                          alkchfalkchf

                          1913




                          1913




                          New contributor




                          alkchf is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.





                          New contributor





                          alkchf is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.






                          alkchf is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.



























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