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Confused by notation of atomic number Z and mass number A on periodic table of elements


Superscript and subscript together after the same atomWhat is the group number or name for elements between group 3 and 4 (F-block) on the periodic table?What do the numerals on the top right corner of the cells in the periodic table represent?Memorizing polyatomic ions? Using Periodic TableDo non-English speaking countries use the same element symbols?Why are group 1 elements called alkali metals and group 2 elements are called alkaline earth metals?Can isotopes of a given element be represented by different symbols?What proof is there that the “Island of Stability” exists?Are halogens a further classification of non-metals, or are they another group themselves?Why is the probability for the signal at 160 in the bromine mass spectrum twice as high as for the signals at 158 and 162?Why doesn't the Atomic mass number(u) represent the exact mass of 1 mole of a given element?













8












$begingroup$


I'm totally confused by the different conventions and when to use what. In the Periodic Table I see



$$ce^6_12C$$



However, in books when talking about isotopes I see



$$ce^12_6C$$



I don't understand the difference between the two. I know what the numbers mean but I don't understand when to use which convention. Are there names for these two conventions?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Dan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$
















    8












    $begingroup$


    I'm totally confused by the different conventions and when to use what. In the Periodic Table I see



    $$ce^6_12C$$



    However, in books when talking about isotopes I see



    $$ce^12_6C$$



    I don't understand the difference between the two. I know what the numbers mean but I don't understand when to use which convention. Are there names for these two conventions?










    share|improve this question









    New contributor




    Dan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.







    $endgroup$














      8












      8








      8





      $begingroup$


      I'm totally confused by the different conventions and when to use what. In the Periodic Table I see



      $$ce^6_12C$$



      However, in books when talking about isotopes I see



      $$ce^12_6C$$



      I don't understand the difference between the two. I know what the numbers mean but I don't understand when to use which convention. Are there names for these two conventions?










      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      Dan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.







      $endgroup$




      I'm totally confused by the different conventions and when to use what. In the Periodic Table I see



      $$ce^6_12C$$



      However, in books when talking about isotopes I see



      $$ce^12_6C$$



      I don't understand the difference between the two. I know what the numbers mean but I don't understand when to use which convention. Are there names for these two conventions?







      notation periodic-table isotope






      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      Dan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.











      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      Dan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.









      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 40 mins ago









      Karsten Theis

      5,242644




      5,242644






      New contributor




      Dan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.









      asked 8 hours ago









      DanDan

      1411




      1411




      New contributor




      Dan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.





      New contributor





      Dan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.






      Dan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.




















          3 Answers
          3






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          10












          $begingroup$

          Periodic tables of elements (PTEs) are often abused by designers. Books are more trustworthy as long as they are written by chemists. Long story short, the second notation $(ce^12_6C)$ is the correct one.
          There is an easy to remember AZE notation: $^A_ZceE$.



          I suspect the PTE you were looking at lists standard (averaged) atomic weights of the elements $A_mathrmr$ rounded to the nearest whole number so it may appear as if those were the mass numbers $A$, probably something like this:



          Basic PTE:carbon



          Basic PTE:legend



          Note that a good periodic table usually includes a legend which deciphers and justifies designer's choice.
          Even better example is the Periodic Table of the Elements by NIST.
          Despite atomic number $Z$ also located in the upper left corner of the cell, its location is typographically literate as both $Z$ and $A_mathrmr$ have distinct place, different typeface and the legend unambiguously denotes which is which:



          NIST PTE:carbon



          NIST PTE:legend






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$








          • 1




            $begingroup$
            @NightWriter Thank you for the edit, I copypasted part of the sentence and forgot to change the word: it should be vice versa;)
            $endgroup$
            – andselisk
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @NightWriter If you want mass numbers, then it's the Nuklidkarte in Karsten's answer. Here it's the average atomic weight, which I assumed was rounded to the whole part in OP's PTE, so that it appeared as if it were the mass number, so I went along with this (maybe it wasn't a good idea though).
            $endgroup$
            – andselisk
            3 hours ago







          • 2




            $begingroup$
            Ok but I think that generally speaking one should not assume that for a particular nuclide rounding off the average over the natural abundances will give you that particular nuclides mass number. There's a loss of generality there. I think you may want to look for a better figure or explain that in your answer.
            $endgroup$
            – Night Writer
            3 hours ago











          • $begingroup$
            @NightWriter Yep, that's a good point, thank you for noticing this flaw. I'm going to fix this in a while.
            $endgroup$
            – andselisk
            3 hours ago


















          9












          $begingroup$

          According to the international standard ISO 80000 Quantities and units – Part 9: Physical chemistry and molecular physics (corrected in Amendment 1, 2011-06-01), the attached subscripts and superscripts have the following meanings.




          (…)



          The nucleon number (mass number) of a nuclide is shown in the left superscript position, as in the following
          example: $$mathrm^14N$$



          (…) 



          The atomic number (proton number) is shown in the left subscript position, as in the following example. $$mathrm_64Gd$$



          (…)




          The same meanings are described in the German standard DIN 1338 (2011).




          $$^A_Zmathrm E_nu^z$$




          This notation is also used in Nomenclature of Inorganic Chemistry – IUPAC Recommendations 2005 (Red Book). Note, however, that this document unfortunately introduced the terrible typographic disaster of the staggered notation for ions (see this question).




          The mass, charge and atomic number of a nuclide are indicated by means of three indexes (subscripts and superscripts) placed around the symbol. The positions are occupied as follows:



          left upper index    mass number

          left lower index    atomic number

          right upper index    charge




          The same notation can also be found in the IUPAC Green Book Quantities, Units and Symbols in Physical Chemistry (2007).



          It is also recommended in the ACS Style Guide:




          Use the left superscript for mass number



          Use the left subscript for atomic number







          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$




















            4












            $begingroup$

            Different periodic tables show the atomic number above, below, or next to the element. They don’t show the mass number, usually, but the atomic weight (not an integer). There is a type of table, for example the Karlsruher Nuklidkarte, that shows all observed isotopes, and this type of chart does show mass numbers as well.



            In the picture, the isotope chart is on the right (https://www.nucleonica.com/wiki/index.php?title=Historical)
            enter image description here






            share|improve this answer









            $endgroup$













              Your Answer








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              3 Answers
              3






              active

              oldest

              votes








              3 Answers
              3






              active

              oldest

              votes









              active

              oldest

              votes






              active

              oldest

              votes









              10












              $begingroup$

              Periodic tables of elements (PTEs) are often abused by designers. Books are more trustworthy as long as they are written by chemists. Long story short, the second notation $(ce^12_6C)$ is the correct one.
              There is an easy to remember AZE notation: $^A_ZceE$.



              I suspect the PTE you were looking at lists standard (averaged) atomic weights of the elements $A_mathrmr$ rounded to the nearest whole number so it may appear as if those were the mass numbers $A$, probably something like this:



              Basic PTE:carbon



              Basic PTE:legend



              Note that a good periodic table usually includes a legend which deciphers and justifies designer's choice.
              Even better example is the Periodic Table of the Elements by NIST.
              Despite atomic number $Z$ also located in the upper left corner of the cell, its location is typographically literate as both $Z$ and $A_mathrmr$ have distinct place, different typeface and the legend unambiguously denotes which is which:



              NIST PTE:carbon



              NIST PTE:legend






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$








              • 1




                $begingroup$
                @NightWriter Thank you for the edit, I copypasted part of the sentence and forgot to change the word: it should be vice versa;)
                $endgroup$
                – andselisk
                4 hours ago










              • $begingroup$
                @NightWriter If you want mass numbers, then it's the Nuklidkarte in Karsten's answer. Here it's the average atomic weight, which I assumed was rounded to the whole part in OP's PTE, so that it appeared as if it were the mass number, so I went along with this (maybe it wasn't a good idea though).
                $endgroup$
                – andselisk
                3 hours ago







              • 2




                $begingroup$
                Ok but I think that generally speaking one should not assume that for a particular nuclide rounding off the average over the natural abundances will give you that particular nuclides mass number. There's a loss of generality there. I think you may want to look for a better figure or explain that in your answer.
                $endgroup$
                – Night Writer
                3 hours ago











              • $begingroup$
                @NightWriter Yep, that's a good point, thank you for noticing this flaw. I'm going to fix this in a while.
                $endgroup$
                – andselisk
                3 hours ago















              10












              $begingroup$

              Periodic tables of elements (PTEs) are often abused by designers. Books are more trustworthy as long as they are written by chemists. Long story short, the second notation $(ce^12_6C)$ is the correct one.
              There is an easy to remember AZE notation: $^A_ZceE$.



              I suspect the PTE you were looking at lists standard (averaged) atomic weights of the elements $A_mathrmr$ rounded to the nearest whole number so it may appear as if those were the mass numbers $A$, probably something like this:



              Basic PTE:carbon



              Basic PTE:legend



              Note that a good periodic table usually includes a legend which deciphers and justifies designer's choice.
              Even better example is the Periodic Table of the Elements by NIST.
              Despite atomic number $Z$ also located in the upper left corner of the cell, its location is typographically literate as both $Z$ and $A_mathrmr$ have distinct place, different typeface and the legend unambiguously denotes which is which:



              NIST PTE:carbon



              NIST PTE:legend






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$








              • 1




                $begingroup$
                @NightWriter Thank you for the edit, I copypasted part of the sentence and forgot to change the word: it should be vice versa;)
                $endgroup$
                – andselisk
                4 hours ago










              • $begingroup$
                @NightWriter If you want mass numbers, then it's the Nuklidkarte in Karsten's answer. Here it's the average atomic weight, which I assumed was rounded to the whole part in OP's PTE, so that it appeared as if it were the mass number, so I went along with this (maybe it wasn't a good idea though).
                $endgroup$
                – andselisk
                3 hours ago







              • 2




                $begingroup$
                Ok but I think that generally speaking one should not assume that for a particular nuclide rounding off the average over the natural abundances will give you that particular nuclides mass number. There's a loss of generality there. I think you may want to look for a better figure or explain that in your answer.
                $endgroup$
                – Night Writer
                3 hours ago











              • $begingroup$
                @NightWriter Yep, that's a good point, thank you for noticing this flaw. I'm going to fix this in a while.
                $endgroup$
                – andselisk
                3 hours ago













              10












              10








              10





              $begingroup$

              Periodic tables of elements (PTEs) are often abused by designers. Books are more trustworthy as long as they are written by chemists. Long story short, the second notation $(ce^12_6C)$ is the correct one.
              There is an easy to remember AZE notation: $^A_ZceE$.



              I suspect the PTE you were looking at lists standard (averaged) atomic weights of the elements $A_mathrmr$ rounded to the nearest whole number so it may appear as if those were the mass numbers $A$, probably something like this:



              Basic PTE:carbon



              Basic PTE:legend



              Note that a good periodic table usually includes a legend which deciphers and justifies designer's choice.
              Even better example is the Periodic Table of the Elements by NIST.
              Despite atomic number $Z$ also located in the upper left corner of the cell, its location is typographically literate as both $Z$ and $A_mathrmr$ have distinct place, different typeface and the legend unambiguously denotes which is which:



              NIST PTE:carbon



              NIST PTE:legend






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$



              Periodic tables of elements (PTEs) are often abused by designers. Books are more trustworthy as long as they are written by chemists. Long story short, the second notation $(ce^12_6C)$ is the correct one.
              There is an easy to remember AZE notation: $^A_ZceE$.



              I suspect the PTE you were looking at lists standard (averaged) atomic weights of the elements $A_mathrmr$ rounded to the nearest whole number so it may appear as if those were the mass numbers $A$, probably something like this:



              Basic PTE:carbon



              Basic PTE:legend



              Note that a good periodic table usually includes a legend which deciphers and justifies designer's choice.
              Even better example is the Periodic Table of the Elements by NIST.
              Despite atomic number $Z$ also located in the upper left corner of the cell, its location is typographically literate as both $Z$ and $A_mathrmr$ have distinct place, different typeface and the legend unambiguously denotes which is which:



              NIST PTE:carbon



              NIST PTE:legend







              share|improve this answer














              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer








              edited 3 hours ago

























              answered 8 hours ago









              andseliskandselisk

              20.1k667130




              20.1k667130







              • 1




                $begingroup$
                @NightWriter Thank you for the edit, I copypasted part of the sentence and forgot to change the word: it should be vice versa;)
                $endgroup$
                – andselisk
                4 hours ago










              • $begingroup$
                @NightWriter If you want mass numbers, then it's the Nuklidkarte in Karsten's answer. Here it's the average atomic weight, which I assumed was rounded to the whole part in OP's PTE, so that it appeared as if it were the mass number, so I went along with this (maybe it wasn't a good idea though).
                $endgroup$
                – andselisk
                3 hours ago







              • 2




                $begingroup$
                Ok but I think that generally speaking one should not assume that for a particular nuclide rounding off the average over the natural abundances will give you that particular nuclides mass number. There's a loss of generality there. I think you may want to look for a better figure or explain that in your answer.
                $endgroup$
                – Night Writer
                3 hours ago











              • $begingroup$
                @NightWriter Yep, that's a good point, thank you for noticing this flaw. I'm going to fix this in a while.
                $endgroup$
                – andselisk
                3 hours ago












              • 1




                $begingroup$
                @NightWriter Thank you for the edit, I copypasted part of the sentence and forgot to change the word: it should be vice versa;)
                $endgroup$
                – andselisk
                4 hours ago










              • $begingroup$
                @NightWriter If you want mass numbers, then it's the Nuklidkarte in Karsten's answer. Here it's the average atomic weight, which I assumed was rounded to the whole part in OP's PTE, so that it appeared as if it were the mass number, so I went along with this (maybe it wasn't a good idea though).
                $endgroup$
                – andselisk
                3 hours ago







              • 2




                $begingroup$
                Ok but I think that generally speaking one should not assume that for a particular nuclide rounding off the average over the natural abundances will give you that particular nuclides mass number. There's a loss of generality there. I think you may want to look for a better figure or explain that in your answer.
                $endgroup$
                – Night Writer
                3 hours ago











              • $begingroup$
                @NightWriter Yep, that's a good point, thank you for noticing this flaw. I'm going to fix this in a while.
                $endgroup$
                – andselisk
                3 hours ago







              1




              1




              $begingroup$
              @NightWriter Thank you for the edit, I copypasted part of the sentence and forgot to change the word: it should be vice versa;)
              $endgroup$
              – andselisk
              4 hours ago




              $begingroup$
              @NightWriter Thank you for the edit, I copypasted part of the sentence and forgot to change the word: it should be vice versa;)
              $endgroup$
              – andselisk
              4 hours ago












              $begingroup$
              @NightWriter If you want mass numbers, then it's the Nuklidkarte in Karsten's answer. Here it's the average atomic weight, which I assumed was rounded to the whole part in OP's PTE, so that it appeared as if it were the mass number, so I went along with this (maybe it wasn't a good idea though).
              $endgroup$
              – andselisk
              3 hours ago





              $begingroup$
              @NightWriter If you want mass numbers, then it's the Nuklidkarte in Karsten's answer. Here it's the average atomic weight, which I assumed was rounded to the whole part in OP's PTE, so that it appeared as if it were the mass number, so I went along with this (maybe it wasn't a good idea though).
              $endgroup$
              – andselisk
              3 hours ago





              2




              2




              $begingroup$
              Ok but I think that generally speaking one should not assume that for a particular nuclide rounding off the average over the natural abundances will give you that particular nuclides mass number. There's a loss of generality there. I think you may want to look for a better figure or explain that in your answer.
              $endgroup$
              – Night Writer
              3 hours ago





              $begingroup$
              Ok but I think that generally speaking one should not assume that for a particular nuclide rounding off the average over the natural abundances will give you that particular nuclides mass number. There's a loss of generality there. I think you may want to look for a better figure or explain that in your answer.
              $endgroup$
              – Night Writer
              3 hours ago













              $begingroup$
              @NightWriter Yep, that's a good point, thank you for noticing this flaw. I'm going to fix this in a while.
              $endgroup$
              – andselisk
              3 hours ago




              $begingroup$
              @NightWriter Yep, that's a good point, thank you for noticing this flaw. I'm going to fix this in a while.
              $endgroup$
              – andselisk
              3 hours ago











              9












              $begingroup$

              According to the international standard ISO 80000 Quantities and units – Part 9: Physical chemistry and molecular physics (corrected in Amendment 1, 2011-06-01), the attached subscripts and superscripts have the following meanings.




              (…)



              The nucleon number (mass number) of a nuclide is shown in the left superscript position, as in the following
              example: $$mathrm^14N$$



              (…) 



              The atomic number (proton number) is shown in the left subscript position, as in the following example. $$mathrm_64Gd$$



              (…)




              The same meanings are described in the German standard DIN 1338 (2011).




              $$^A_Zmathrm E_nu^z$$




              This notation is also used in Nomenclature of Inorganic Chemistry – IUPAC Recommendations 2005 (Red Book). Note, however, that this document unfortunately introduced the terrible typographic disaster of the staggered notation for ions (see this question).




              The mass, charge and atomic number of a nuclide are indicated by means of three indexes (subscripts and superscripts) placed around the symbol. The positions are occupied as follows:



              left upper index    mass number

              left lower index    atomic number

              right upper index    charge




              The same notation can also be found in the IUPAC Green Book Quantities, Units and Symbols in Physical Chemistry (2007).



              It is also recommended in the ACS Style Guide:




              Use the left superscript for mass number



              Use the left subscript for atomic number







              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$

















                9












                $begingroup$

                According to the international standard ISO 80000 Quantities and units – Part 9: Physical chemistry and molecular physics (corrected in Amendment 1, 2011-06-01), the attached subscripts and superscripts have the following meanings.




                (…)



                The nucleon number (mass number) of a nuclide is shown in the left superscript position, as in the following
                example: $$mathrm^14N$$



                (…) 



                The atomic number (proton number) is shown in the left subscript position, as in the following example. $$mathrm_64Gd$$



                (…)




                The same meanings are described in the German standard DIN 1338 (2011).




                $$^A_Zmathrm E_nu^z$$




                This notation is also used in Nomenclature of Inorganic Chemistry – IUPAC Recommendations 2005 (Red Book). Note, however, that this document unfortunately introduced the terrible typographic disaster of the staggered notation for ions (see this question).




                The mass, charge and atomic number of a nuclide are indicated by means of three indexes (subscripts and superscripts) placed around the symbol. The positions are occupied as follows:



                left upper index    mass number

                left lower index    atomic number

                right upper index    charge




                The same notation can also be found in the IUPAC Green Book Quantities, Units and Symbols in Physical Chemistry (2007).



                It is also recommended in the ACS Style Guide:




                Use the left superscript for mass number



                Use the left subscript for atomic number







                share|improve this answer











                $endgroup$















                  9












                  9








                  9





                  $begingroup$

                  According to the international standard ISO 80000 Quantities and units – Part 9: Physical chemistry and molecular physics (corrected in Amendment 1, 2011-06-01), the attached subscripts and superscripts have the following meanings.




                  (…)



                  The nucleon number (mass number) of a nuclide is shown in the left superscript position, as in the following
                  example: $$mathrm^14N$$



                  (…) 



                  The atomic number (proton number) is shown in the left subscript position, as in the following example. $$mathrm_64Gd$$



                  (…)




                  The same meanings are described in the German standard DIN 1338 (2011).




                  $$^A_Zmathrm E_nu^z$$




                  This notation is also used in Nomenclature of Inorganic Chemistry – IUPAC Recommendations 2005 (Red Book). Note, however, that this document unfortunately introduced the terrible typographic disaster of the staggered notation for ions (see this question).




                  The mass, charge and atomic number of a nuclide are indicated by means of three indexes (subscripts and superscripts) placed around the symbol. The positions are occupied as follows:



                  left upper index    mass number

                  left lower index    atomic number

                  right upper index    charge




                  The same notation can also be found in the IUPAC Green Book Quantities, Units and Symbols in Physical Chemistry (2007).



                  It is also recommended in the ACS Style Guide:




                  Use the left superscript for mass number



                  Use the left subscript for atomic number







                  share|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$



                  According to the international standard ISO 80000 Quantities and units – Part 9: Physical chemistry and molecular physics (corrected in Amendment 1, 2011-06-01), the attached subscripts and superscripts have the following meanings.




                  (…)



                  The nucleon number (mass number) of a nuclide is shown in the left superscript position, as in the following
                  example: $$mathrm^14N$$



                  (…) 



                  The atomic number (proton number) is shown in the left subscript position, as in the following example. $$mathrm_64Gd$$



                  (…)




                  The same meanings are described in the German standard DIN 1338 (2011).




                  $$^A_Zmathrm E_nu^z$$




                  This notation is also used in Nomenclature of Inorganic Chemistry – IUPAC Recommendations 2005 (Red Book). Note, however, that this document unfortunately introduced the terrible typographic disaster of the staggered notation for ions (see this question).




                  The mass, charge and atomic number of a nuclide are indicated by means of three indexes (subscripts and superscripts) placed around the symbol. The positions are occupied as follows:



                  left upper index    mass number

                  left lower index    atomic number

                  right upper index    charge




                  The same notation can also be found in the IUPAC Green Book Quantities, Units and Symbols in Physical Chemistry (2007).



                  It is also recommended in the ACS Style Guide:




                  Use the left superscript for mass number



                  Use the left subscript for atomic number








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                  edited 7 hours ago

























                  answered 7 hours ago









                  Loong♦Loong

                  34.5k886181




                  34.5k886181





















                      4












                      $begingroup$

                      Different periodic tables show the atomic number above, below, or next to the element. They don’t show the mass number, usually, but the atomic weight (not an integer). There is a type of table, for example the Karlsruher Nuklidkarte, that shows all observed isotopes, and this type of chart does show mass numbers as well.



                      In the picture, the isotope chart is on the right (https://www.nucleonica.com/wiki/index.php?title=Historical)
                      enter image description here






                      share|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$

















                        4












                        $begingroup$

                        Different periodic tables show the atomic number above, below, or next to the element. They don’t show the mass number, usually, but the atomic weight (not an integer). There is a type of table, for example the Karlsruher Nuklidkarte, that shows all observed isotopes, and this type of chart does show mass numbers as well.



                        In the picture, the isotope chart is on the right (https://www.nucleonica.com/wiki/index.php?title=Historical)
                        enter image description here






                        share|improve this answer









                        $endgroup$















                          4












                          4








                          4





                          $begingroup$

                          Different periodic tables show the atomic number above, below, or next to the element. They don’t show the mass number, usually, but the atomic weight (not an integer). There is a type of table, for example the Karlsruher Nuklidkarte, that shows all observed isotopes, and this type of chart does show mass numbers as well.



                          In the picture, the isotope chart is on the right (https://www.nucleonica.com/wiki/index.php?title=Historical)
                          enter image description here






                          share|improve this answer









                          $endgroup$



                          Different periodic tables show the atomic number above, below, or next to the element. They don’t show the mass number, usually, but the atomic weight (not an integer). There is a type of table, for example the Karlsruher Nuklidkarte, that shows all observed isotopes, and this type of chart does show mass numbers as well.



                          In the picture, the isotope chart is on the right (https://www.nucleonica.com/wiki/index.php?title=Historical)
                          enter image description here







                          share|improve this answer












                          share|improve this answer



                          share|improve this answer










                          answered 5 hours ago









                          Karsten TheisKarsten Theis

                          5,242644




                          5,242644




















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