What Intellectual Property rights apply to the output of a machine learning algorithm? The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are In Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Intellectual Property Rights for Digital Artwork and an Artist in the United StatesIntellectual Property of a bankrupt companyIntellectual property at employee hackathon?Who owns the Intellectual Property of this Device?Distributing machine learning models (e.g., word embeddings) based on non-sharable datasetsIntellectual Property of Stack Exchange postsAbout Beyonce's song intellectual property rightsHow can “intellectual property rights” prevent the publication of fire safety information?Signing over intellectual property rights in OntarioCan creative element owners claim copyright on Machine Learning models or its output?

Do warforged have souls?

Why can't wing-mounted spoilers be used to steepen approaches?

Does Parliament hold absolute power in the UK?

Presidential Pardon

How did passengers keep warm on sail ships?

Make it rain characters

Why doesn't a hydraulic lever violate conservation of energy?

Did the new image of black hole confirm the general theory of relativity?

Are spiders unable to hurt humans, especially very small spiders?

How to read αἱμύλιος or when to aspirate

Student Loan from years ago pops up and is taking my salary

Can the DM override racial traits?

What's the point in a preamp?

What was the last x86 CPU that did not have the x87 floating-point unit built in?

Intergalactic human space ship encounters another ship, character gets shunted off beyond known universe, reality starts collapsing

Huge performance difference of the command find with and without using %M option to show permissions

How did the crowd guess the pentatonic scale in Bobby McFerrin's presentation?

What other Star Trek series did the main TNG cast show up in?

Keeping a retro style to sci-fi spaceships?

How to determine omitted units in a publication

Did the UK government pay "millions and millions of dollars" to try to snag Julian Assange?

Is an up-to-date browser secure on an out-of-date OS?

Simulating Exploding Dice

What happens to a Warlock's expended Spell Slots when they gain a Level?



What Intellectual Property rights apply to the output of a machine learning algorithm?



The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are In
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Intellectual Property Rights for Digital Artwork and an Artist in the United StatesIntellectual Property of a bankrupt companyIntellectual property at employee hackathon?Who owns the Intellectual Property of this Device?Distributing machine learning models (e.g., word embeddings) based on non-sharable datasetsIntellectual Property of Stack Exchange postsAbout Beyonce's song intellectual property rightsHow can “intellectual property rights” prevent the publication of fire safety information?Signing over intellectual property rights in OntarioCan creative element owners claim copyright on Machine Learning models or its output?










2















Doing some research for an entrepreneurship class. We are building an email classifier for a logistics company to automate part of their customer service process. We are having some discussion on how to properly license this technology, and whether it should be hosted on the cloud or on their internal servers.



Specifically, my questions are:



1) Who actually owns the rights to the trained machine learning classifier output by the machine learning algorithm?



2) Since the company itself owns the data, can they claim rights to the output?



3) If the service is hosted on their servers, is there any way to protect against them hacking the classifier and re-deploying it themselves?










share|improve this question














bumped to the homepage by Community 13 mins ago


This question has answers that may be good or bad; the system has marked it active so that they can be reviewed.















  • Depends a lot on how the transaction is structured contractually.

    – ohwilleke
    Oct 15 '18 at 18:37















2















Doing some research for an entrepreneurship class. We are building an email classifier for a logistics company to automate part of their customer service process. We are having some discussion on how to properly license this technology, and whether it should be hosted on the cloud or on their internal servers.



Specifically, my questions are:



1) Who actually owns the rights to the trained machine learning classifier output by the machine learning algorithm?



2) Since the company itself owns the data, can they claim rights to the output?



3) If the service is hosted on their servers, is there any way to protect against them hacking the classifier and re-deploying it themselves?










share|improve this question














bumped to the homepage by Community 13 mins ago


This question has answers that may be good or bad; the system has marked it active so that they can be reviewed.















  • Depends a lot on how the transaction is structured contractually.

    – ohwilleke
    Oct 15 '18 at 18:37













2












2








2








Doing some research for an entrepreneurship class. We are building an email classifier for a logistics company to automate part of their customer service process. We are having some discussion on how to properly license this technology, and whether it should be hosted on the cloud or on their internal servers.



Specifically, my questions are:



1) Who actually owns the rights to the trained machine learning classifier output by the machine learning algorithm?



2) Since the company itself owns the data, can they claim rights to the output?



3) If the service is hosted on their servers, is there any way to protect against them hacking the classifier and re-deploying it themselves?










share|improve this question














Doing some research for an entrepreneurship class. We are building an email classifier for a logistics company to automate part of their customer service process. We are having some discussion on how to properly license this technology, and whether it should be hosted on the cloud or on their internal servers.



Specifically, my questions are:



1) Who actually owns the rights to the trained machine learning classifier output by the machine learning algorithm?



2) Since the company itself owns the data, can they claim rights to the output?



3) If the service is hosted on their servers, is there any way to protect against them hacking the classifier and re-deploying it themselves?







intellectual-property data-ownership






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked Nov 30 '17 at 10:02









Vincent MunosVincent Munos

112




112





bumped to the homepage by Community 13 mins ago


This question has answers that may be good or bad; the system has marked it active so that they can be reviewed.







bumped to the homepage by Community 13 mins ago


This question has answers that may be good or bad; the system has marked it active so that they can be reviewed.














  • Depends a lot on how the transaction is structured contractually.

    – ohwilleke
    Oct 15 '18 at 18:37

















  • Depends a lot on how the transaction is structured contractually.

    – ohwilleke
    Oct 15 '18 at 18:37
















Depends a lot on how the transaction is structured contractually.

– ohwilleke
Oct 15 '18 at 18:37





Depends a lot on how the transaction is structured contractually.

– ohwilleke
Oct 15 '18 at 18:37










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















0














Your title asks the right question first. Before discussing who owns Intellectual Property rights, we should first establish which rights that would be.



There are a few different types of Intellectual Property. Chiefly, those are patents, design patents, trademarks, and copyright. We can quickly dismiss patents and design patents - they exist only after registration, and you would know about that.



It's also clear that the model itself is not a trademark. You may invent a trademark for the model and do business using that trademark, but that trademark would only name the model.



Finally, there's copyright. That requires creative activity at least. But is the ML model the result of creative activity, or is the model created by a mathematical procedure (Stochastic Gradient Descent)? This is not obvious. You probably have some input in pre-selecting the data, but it's likely that the training algorithm had the final decision in weighing all inputs. Reasonable people may have different opinions here. My personal view is that the process is almost fully automated, and therefore not creative.






share|improve this answer























  • Could it be a "trade secret"?

    – D M
    Mar 18 '18 at 19:01











  • @DM: That's possible. The challenges would be to define the extent of that trade secret, and the owner of the secret. But if argued contractually and up front that it is a trade secret, owned by the students, then this logistics company would have a problem denying that later. Note that a trade secret does not protect against independent re-discovery.

    – MSalters
    Mar 18 '18 at 20:49











  • to be precise - "patent" encompasses "design patent"; patents are not "registered" they are applied for and it is possible that the application is not visible to the public until a patent is granted and issued. That is usually years after the application is filed, so, no you would not necessarily know that patent rights were in the process of being claimed. The creativity requirement for a copyrighted work is a very minimal requirement.

    – George White
    Nov 13 '18 at 20:44


















0














The Wikipedia article on Threshold of Originality has a section on stuff that machines produce, and it appears that, at least in the US, this would probably not be original enough to be copyrightable. Consult a local lawyer of the appropriate specialty if you want a more definite answer. The only other category of IP that's applicable would be trade secrets, and for that to apply you'd have to keep control of the output and not show it to others.



In the US, anyway, data usually belongs to whoever gathered it, but owning data doesn't mean owning something generated from it.



I assume that there's a generic engine and that the classifier output is what's important here. If it's not copyrightable, then there's nothing stopping anyone with access to it from copying, using, or redistributing it. If you show it to the company without an NDA in place, it won't be a trade secret. If you want to make a profit from it, consider charging for it up front.






share|improve this answer























    Your Answer








    StackExchange.ready(function()
    var channelOptions =
    tags: "".split(" "),
    id: "617"
    ;
    initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

    StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
    // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
    if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
    StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
    createEditor();
    );

    else
    createEditor();

    );

    function createEditor()
    StackExchange.prepareEditor(
    heartbeatType: 'answer',
    autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
    convertImagesToLinks: false,
    noModals: true,
    showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
    reputationToPostImages: null,
    bindNavPrevention: true,
    postfix: "",
    imageUploader:
    brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
    contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
    allowUrls: true
    ,
    noCode: true, onDemand: true,
    discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
    ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
    );



    );













    draft saved

    draft discarded


















    StackExchange.ready(
    function ()
    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2flaw.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f24467%2fwhat-intellectual-property-rights-apply-to-the-output-of-a-machine-learning-algo%23new-answer', 'question_page');

    );

    Post as a guest















    Required, but never shown

























    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes








    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    0














    Your title asks the right question first. Before discussing who owns Intellectual Property rights, we should first establish which rights that would be.



    There are a few different types of Intellectual Property. Chiefly, those are patents, design patents, trademarks, and copyright. We can quickly dismiss patents and design patents - they exist only after registration, and you would know about that.



    It's also clear that the model itself is not a trademark. You may invent a trademark for the model and do business using that trademark, but that trademark would only name the model.



    Finally, there's copyright. That requires creative activity at least. But is the ML model the result of creative activity, or is the model created by a mathematical procedure (Stochastic Gradient Descent)? This is not obvious. You probably have some input in pre-selecting the data, but it's likely that the training algorithm had the final decision in weighing all inputs. Reasonable people may have different opinions here. My personal view is that the process is almost fully automated, and therefore not creative.






    share|improve this answer























    • Could it be a "trade secret"?

      – D M
      Mar 18 '18 at 19:01











    • @DM: That's possible. The challenges would be to define the extent of that trade secret, and the owner of the secret. But if argued contractually and up front that it is a trade secret, owned by the students, then this logistics company would have a problem denying that later. Note that a trade secret does not protect against independent re-discovery.

      – MSalters
      Mar 18 '18 at 20:49











    • to be precise - "patent" encompasses "design patent"; patents are not "registered" they are applied for and it is possible that the application is not visible to the public until a patent is granted and issued. That is usually years after the application is filed, so, no you would not necessarily know that patent rights were in the process of being claimed. The creativity requirement for a copyrighted work is a very minimal requirement.

      – George White
      Nov 13 '18 at 20:44















    0














    Your title asks the right question first. Before discussing who owns Intellectual Property rights, we should first establish which rights that would be.



    There are a few different types of Intellectual Property. Chiefly, those are patents, design patents, trademarks, and copyright. We can quickly dismiss patents and design patents - they exist only after registration, and you would know about that.



    It's also clear that the model itself is not a trademark. You may invent a trademark for the model and do business using that trademark, but that trademark would only name the model.



    Finally, there's copyright. That requires creative activity at least. But is the ML model the result of creative activity, or is the model created by a mathematical procedure (Stochastic Gradient Descent)? This is not obvious. You probably have some input in pre-selecting the data, but it's likely that the training algorithm had the final decision in weighing all inputs. Reasonable people may have different opinions here. My personal view is that the process is almost fully automated, and therefore not creative.






    share|improve this answer























    • Could it be a "trade secret"?

      – D M
      Mar 18 '18 at 19:01











    • @DM: That's possible. The challenges would be to define the extent of that trade secret, and the owner of the secret. But if argued contractually and up front that it is a trade secret, owned by the students, then this logistics company would have a problem denying that later. Note that a trade secret does not protect against independent re-discovery.

      – MSalters
      Mar 18 '18 at 20:49











    • to be precise - "patent" encompasses "design patent"; patents are not "registered" they are applied for and it is possible that the application is not visible to the public until a patent is granted and issued. That is usually years after the application is filed, so, no you would not necessarily know that patent rights were in the process of being claimed. The creativity requirement for a copyrighted work is a very minimal requirement.

      – George White
      Nov 13 '18 at 20:44













    0












    0








    0







    Your title asks the right question first. Before discussing who owns Intellectual Property rights, we should first establish which rights that would be.



    There are a few different types of Intellectual Property. Chiefly, those are patents, design patents, trademarks, and copyright. We can quickly dismiss patents and design patents - they exist only after registration, and you would know about that.



    It's also clear that the model itself is not a trademark. You may invent a trademark for the model and do business using that trademark, but that trademark would only name the model.



    Finally, there's copyright. That requires creative activity at least. But is the ML model the result of creative activity, or is the model created by a mathematical procedure (Stochastic Gradient Descent)? This is not obvious. You probably have some input in pre-selecting the data, but it's likely that the training algorithm had the final decision in weighing all inputs. Reasonable people may have different opinions here. My personal view is that the process is almost fully automated, and therefore not creative.






    share|improve this answer













    Your title asks the right question first. Before discussing who owns Intellectual Property rights, we should first establish which rights that would be.



    There are a few different types of Intellectual Property. Chiefly, those are patents, design patents, trademarks, and copyright. We can quickly dismiss patents and design patents - they exist only after registration, and you would know about that.



    It's also clear that the model itself is not a trademark. You may invent a trademark for the model and do business using that trademark, but that trademark would only name the model.



    Finally, there's copyright. That requires creative activity at least. But is the ML model the result of creative activity, or is the model created by a mathematical procedure (Stochastic Gradient Descent)? This is not obvious. You probably have some input in pre-selecting the data, but it's likely that the training algorithm had the final decision in weighing all inputs. Reasonable people may have different opinions here. My personal view is that the process is almost fully automated, and therefore not creative.







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered Jan 17 '18 at 15:38









    MSaltersMSalters

    2,08069




    2,08069












    • Could it be a "trade secret"?

      – D M
      Mar 18 '18 at 19:01











    • @DM: That's possible. The challenges would be to define the extent of that trade secret, and the owner of the secret. But if argued contractually and up front that it is a trade secret, owned by the students, then this logistics company would have a problem denying that later. Note that a trade secret does not protect against independent re-discovery.

      – MSalters
      Mar 18 '18 at 20:49











    • to be precise - "patent" encompasses "design patent"; patents are not "registered" they are applied for and it is possible that the application is not visible to the public until a patent is granted and issued. That is usually years after the application is filed, so, no you would not necessarily know that patent rights were in the process of being claimed. The creativity requirement for a copyrighted work is a very minimal requirement.

      – George White
      Nov 13 '18 at 20:44

















    • Could it be a "trade secret"?

      – D M
      Mar 18 '18 at 19:01











    • @DM: That's possible. The challenges would be to define the extent of that trade secret, and the owner of the secret. But if argued contractually and up front that it is a trade secret, owned by the students, then this logistics company would have a problem denying that later. Note that a trade secret does not protect against independent re-discovery.

      – MSalters
      Mar 18 '18 at 20:49











    • to be precise - "patent" encompasses "design patent"; patents are not "registered" they are applied for and it is possible that the application is not visible to the public until a patent is granted and issued. That is usually years after the application is filed, so, no you would not necessarily know that patent rights were in the process of being claimed. The creativity requirement for a copyrighted work is a very minimal requirement.

      – George White
      Nov 13 '18 at 20:44
















    Could it be a "trade secret"?

    – D M
    Mar 18 '18 at 19:01





    Could it be a "trade secret"?

    – D M
    Mar 18 '18 at 19:01













    @DM: That's possible. The challenges would be to define the extent of that trade secret, and the owner of the secret. But if argued contractually and up front that it is a trade secret, owned by the students, then this logistics company would have a problem denying that later. Note that a trade secret does not protect against independent re-discovery.

    – MSalters
    Mar 18 '18 at 20:49





    @DM: That's possible. The challenges would be to define the extent of that trade secret, and the owner of the secret. But if argued contractually and up front that it is a trade secret, owned by the students, then this logistics company would have a problem denying that later. Note that a trade secret does not protect against independent re-discovery.

    – MSalters
    Mar 18 '18 at 20:49













    to be precise - "patent" encompasses "design patent"; patents are not "registered" they are applied for and it is possible that the application is not visible to the public until a patent is granted and issued. That is usually years after the application is filed, so, no you would not necessarily know that patent rights were in the process of being claimed. The creativity requirement for a copyrighted work is a very minimal requirement.

    – George White
    Nov 13 '18 at 20:44





    to be precise - "patent" encompasses "design patent"; patents are not "registered" they are applied for and it is possible that the application is not visible to the public until a patent is granted and issued. That is usually years after the application is filed, so, no you would not necessarily know that patent rights were in the process of being claimed. The creativity requirement for a copyrighted work is a very minimal requirement.

    – George White
    Nov 13 '18 at 20:44











    0














    The Wikipedia article on Threshold of Originality has a section on stuff that machines produce, and it appears that, at least in the US, this would probably not be original enough to be copyrightable. Consult a local lawyer of the appropriate specialty if you want a more definite answer. The only other category of IP that's applicable would be trade secrets, and for that to apply you'd have to keep control of the output and not show it to others.



    In the US, anyway, data usually belongs to whoever gathered it, but owning data doesn't mean owning something generated from it.



    I assume that there's a generic engine and that the classifier output is what's important here. If it's not copyrightable, then there's nothing stopping anyone with access to it from copying, using, or redistributing it. If you show it to the company without an NDA in place, it won't be a trade secret. If you want to make a profit from it, consider charging for it up front.






    share|improve this answer



























      0














      The Wikipedia article on Threshold of Originality has a section on stuff that machines produce, and it appears that, at least in the US, this would probably not be original enough to be copyrightable. Consult a local lawyer of the appropriate specialty if you want a more definite answer. The only other category of IP that's applicable would be trade secrets, and for that to apply you'd have to keep control of the output and not show it to others.



      In the US, anyway, data usually belongs to whoever gathered it, but owning data doesn't mean owning something generated from it.



      I assume that there's a generic engine and that the classifier output is what's important here. If it's not copyrightable, then there's nothing stopping anyone with access to it from copying, using, or redistributing it. If you show it to the company without an NDA in place, it won't be a trade secret. If you want to make a profit from it, consider charging for it up front.






      share|improve this answer

























        0












        0








        0







        The Wikipedia article on Threshold of Originality has a section on stuff that machines produce, and it appears that, at least in the US, this would probably not be original enough to be copyrightable. Consult a local lawyer of the appropriate specialty if you want a more definite answer. The only other category of IP that's applicable would be trade secrets, and for that to apply you'd have to keep control of the output and not show it to others.



        In the US, anyway, data usually belongs to whoever gathered it, but owning data doesn't mean owning something generated from it.



        I assume that there's a generic engine and that the classifier output is what's important here. If it's not copyrightable, then there's nothing stopping anyone with access to it from copying, using, or redistributing it. If you show it to the company without an NDA in place, it won't be a trade secret. If you want to make a profit from it, consider charging for it up front.






        share|improve this answer













        The Wikipedia article on Threshold of Originality has a section on stuff that machines produce, and it appears that, at least in the US, this would probably not be original enough to be copyrightable. Consult a local lawyer of the appropriate specialty if you want a more definite answer. The only other category of IP that's applicable would be trade secrets, and for that to apply you'd have to keep control of the output and not show it to others.



        In the US, anyway, data usually belongs to whoever gathered it, but owning data doesn't mean owning something generated from it.



        I assume that there's a generic engine and that the classifier output is what's important here. If it's not copyrightable, then there's nothing stopping anyone with access to it from copying, using, or redistributing it. If you show it to the company without an NDA in place, it won't be a trade secret. If you want to make a profit from it, consider charging for it up front.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered Nov 13 '18 at 21:18









        David ThornleyDavid Thornley

        9824




        9824



























            draft saved

            draft discarded
















































            Thanks for contributing an answer to Law Stack Exchange!


            • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

            But avoid


            • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

            • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

            To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




            draft saved


            draft discarded














            StackExchange.ready(
            function ()
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2flaw.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f24467%2fwhat-intellectual-property-rights-apply-to-the-output-of-a-machine-learning-algo%23new-answer', 'question_page');

            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown





















































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown

































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown







            Popular posts from this blog

            Are there any AGPL-style licences that require source code modifications to be public? Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern) Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?Force derivative works to be publicAre there any GPL like licenses for Apple App Store?Do you violate the GPL if you provide source code that cannot be compiled?GPL - is it distribution to use libraries in an appliance loaned to customers?Distributing App for free which uses GPL'ed codeModifications of server software under GPL, with web/CLI interfaceDoes using an AGPLv3-licensed library prevent me from dual-licensing my own source code?Can I publish only select code under GPLv3 from a private project?Is there published precedent regarding the scope of covered work that uses AGPL software?If MIT licensed code links to GPL licensed code what should be the license of the resulting binary program?If I use a public API endpoint that has its source code licensed under AGPL in my app, do I need to disclose my source?

            2013 GY136 Descoberta | Órbita | Referências Menu de navegação«List Of Centaurs and Scattered-Disk Objects»«List of Known Trans-Neptunian Objects»

            Metrô de Los Teques Índice Linhas | Estações | Ver também | Referências Ligações externas | Menu de navegação«INSTITUCIÓN»«Mapa de rutas»originalMetrô de Los TequesC.A. Metro Los Teques |Alcaldía de Guaicaipuro – Sitio OficialGobernacion de Mirandaeeeeeee