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Stereotypical names

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Stereotypical names


Tools for generating characters' namesWhat connotations do these character names confer?Writing a character that has many namesAre words like 'cunt' too provocative for use in the current fiction market?Guidance on pacing the introduction of new charactersWhen naming a character, is thematic naming or realistic naming more important?Are connotations with certain names inevitable?organising complex networksGiving nonsensical names to thingsHow to describe my character using they/them so the reader doesn't know their gender until their pronouns show up later?













5















In every country, some names are particularly common: 'John' in the UK, 'Juan' in Spain, 'Ivan' in Russia. Those names are common almost to the point of being stereotypical (consider 'John Doe').



If I have no more than one or two characters from a particular place, is it bad form to use those extremely common names? On the one hand, those names are common, that's real life. It is quite realistic to have a character from that location carry that name. On the other hand, it feels almost lazy to have a guy from Spain named Juan, and his sister is of course Maria. Like I couldn't be bothered to do the research and find some other names, and went with the most stereotypical ones instead.



Is there a way to strike a balance between conveying a strong sense of location with the names, and not being "too stereotypical"? (My particular situation is a setting in space with people from all over.)










share|improve this question



















  • 1





    In the case of Spanish, keep the traditional names but use their nicknames instead (Juan > Juani). Or give them second names and then use the nicknames too (María Teresa > Maité). For other languages, see what is possible. Keep in mind that some 'stereotypical' names have become olf-fashioned (eg. José isn't common nowadays amidst young Portuguese men). Sorry, don't have much time right now for a full answer.

    – Sara Costa
    1 hour ago















5















In every country, some names are particularly common: 'John' in the UK, 'Juan' in Spain, 'Ivan' in Russia. Those names are common almost to the point of being stereotypical (consider 'John Doe').



If I have no more than one or two characters from a particular place, is it bad form to use those extremely common names? On the one hand, those names are common, that's real life. It is quite realistic to have a character from that location carry that name. On the other hand, it feels almost lazy to have a guy from Spain named Juan, and his sister is of course Maria. Like I couldn't be bothered to do the research and find some other names, and went with the most stereotypical ones instead.



Is there a way to strike a balance between conveying a strong sense of location with the names, and not being "too stereotypical"? (My particular situation is a setting in space with people from all over.)










share|improve this question



















  • 1





    In the case of Spanish, keep the traditional names but use their nicknames instead (Juan > Juani). Or give them second names and then use the nicknames too (María Teresa > Maité). For other languages, see what is possible. Keep in mind that some 'stereotypical' names have become olf-fashioned (eg. José isn't common nowadays amidst young Portuguese men). Sorry, don't have much time right now for a full answer.

    – Sara Costa
    1 hour ago













5












5








5








In every country, some names are particularly common: 'John' in the UK, 'Juan' in Spain, 'Ivan' in Russia. Those names are common almost to the point of being stereotypical (consider 'John Doe').



If I have no more than one or two characters from a particular place, is it bad form to use those extremely common names? On the one hand, those names are common, that's real life. It is quite realistic to have a character from that location carry that name. On the other hand, it feels almost lazy to have a guy from Spain named Juan, and his sister is of course Maria. Like I couldn't be bothered to do the research and find some other names, and went with the most stereotypical ones instead.



Is there a way to strike a balance between conveying a strong sense of location with the names, and not being "too stereotypical"? (My particular situation is a setting in space with people from all over.)










share|improve this question
















In every country, some names are particularly common: 'John' in the UK, 'Juan' in Spain, 'Ivan' in Russia. Those names are common almost to the point of being stereotypical (consider 'John Doe').



If I have no more than one or two characters from a particular place, is it bad form to use those extremely common names? On the one hand, those names are common, that's real life. It is quite realistic to have a character from that location carry that name. On the other hand, it feels almost lazy to have a guy from Spain named Juan, and his sister is of course Maria. Like I couldn't be bothered to do the research and find some other names, and went with the most stereotypical ones instead.



Is there a way to strike a balance between conveying a strong sense of location with the names, and not being "too stereotypical"? (My particular situation is a setting in space with people from all over.)







creative-writing characters naming






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 59 mins ago









Alexander

3,640412




3,640412










asked 1 hour ago









GalastelGalastel

37.8k6113200




37.8k6113200







  • 1





    In the case of Spanish, keep the traditional names but use their nicknames instead (Juan > Juani). Or give them second names and then use the nicknames too (María Teresa > Maité). For other languages, see what is possible. Keep in mind that some 'stereotypical' names have become olf-fashioned (eg. José isn't common nowadays amidst young Portuguese men). Sorry, don't have much time right now for a full answer.

    – Sara Costa
    1 hour ago












  • 1





    In the case of Spanish, keep the traditional names but use their nicknames instead (Juan > Juani). Or give them second names and then use the nicknames too (María Teresa > Maité). For other languages, see what is possible. Keep in mind that some 'stereotypical' names have become olf-fashioned (eg. José isn't common nowadays amidst young Portuguese men). Sorry, don't have much time right now for a full answer.

    – Sara Costa
    1 hour ago







1




1





In the case of Spanish, keep the traditional names but use their nicknames instead (Juan > Juani). Or give them second names and then use the nicknames too (María Teresa > Maité). For other languages, see what is possible. Keep in mind that some 'stereotypical' names have become olf-fashioned (eg. José isn't common nowadays amidst young Portuguese men). Sorry, don't have much time right now for a full answer.

– Sara Costa
1 hour ago





In the case of Spanish, keep the traditional names but use their nicknames instead (Juan > Juani). Or give them second names and then use the nicknames too (María Teresa > Maité). For other languages, see what is possible. Keep in mind that some 'stereotypical' names have become olf-fashioned (eg. José isn't common nowadays amidst young Portuguese men). Sorry, don't have much time right now for a full answer.

– Sara Costa
1 hour ago










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















2














The problem about this is that most of the time we want to read something about special people. Sure, we want to be able to sympathize with the character and for example superhero comics have a history of making it look like everyone could be Superman - or Shazam the 14-year-old-boy-transformed-into-a-superhero - but characters in books, comics, etc. tend to be special in some regards. By giving your protagonist a name that seemingly every second person has they can appear quite boring.



What name do you think would be more memorable: "Shazam" or "Billy"?



Yes, the protagonist in the linked comic series is named "Billy", quite the typical name. But most people will likely find his superhero form more memorable. Maybe you could use this and give your "Juan" and "Maria" interesting and memorable nicknames. Especially if they have a name that seemingly everyone else around them had that could be a reason to try and stand out. How do your characters feel about their name? Do they like this typical name? Maybe they like the feeling of proudly representing the majority. Or maybe they want to be special. Different. Not just another "Juan" or "Maria".



A lot of this depends on the setting. In fantasy or sci-fi settings it's far easier to just come up with new names. In modern day settings like in a thriller you will more likely use "normal" names. But this also depends on a lot of factors. Are you in a rural area where older names are more present? Or a metropolitan city with influences from all around the globe? Is the social class of your characters focused on traditions or innovation?



As you mention that you have a setting with lots of people from all over the world you could use steretypical names a few times. Maybe one or two out of a group of five people would feel like something that can actually happen while still not feeling as if you were simply too lazy to look up other names. But you should think about other options to refer to these characters and you should think about how the characters feel about their own names.






share|improve this answer






























    1














    There is nothing wrong with using common names for characters unless you over use them. If everyone has the most common names for their region, the readers may start paying attention to that instead of your story.



    That being said, there are ways of playing with it. You could use it to break expectations. Maybe Ivan is from the UK?



    Heck, any of them could be from the US.



    Maybe have two characters named John. One will end up being called by a nickname. My name isn't incredibly common but for one event we had five people with my first name on a radio net. That was a fun mess. With 95 people on the radio net, last names were out as well.



    Maybe have John meet Juan. Having the "same" name might be a running gag for the two.






    share|improve this answer






























      1














      I look for popular names, but not the MOST popular names. For example, I just googled "most popular names in the UK" and found this at the top link. An excerpt:



      Boys



      Oliver - 6,259
      Harry - 5,031
      George - 4,929
      Noah - 4,273
      Jack - 4,190
      Jacob - 3,968
      Leo - 3,781
      Oscar - 3,739
      Charlie - 3,724
      Muhammad - 3,691


      Girls



      Olivia - 5,204
      Amelia - 4,358
      Isla - 3,373
      Ava - 3,289
      Emily - 3,121
      Isabella - 2,627
      Mia - 2,590
      Poppy - 2,527
      Ella - 2,452
      Lily - 2,405


      Just pick something not in the top 5, it would be realistic, but not obviously stereotypical of the region.






      share|improve this answer























      • Anyone else amused by the #1 names in both lists being the male and female equivalents of each other?

        – Mason Wheeler
        1 min ago


















      1














      It is bad when your "national" character is one-dimensional. It is perfectly fine when this character is non-stereotypical.



      Creating a "representative" characters with stereotypical names is a bad (and well-worn) practice when those characters also reinforce popular stereotypes of a certain nation or racial group. On the other hand, if such character has depth and well-developed, steretotypical name becomes insignificant.



      This trope was humorously subverted in the 2002 movie The Cuckoo, in which one of the main characters, a Russian, has name "Ivan", but his newfound friend, Finnish sniper Veikko is not believing it because




      when they first met and Veikko asks for Ivan's name, Ivan replies "Get lost!" (in Russian) - and this is how Veikko had called him ever since.







      share|improve this answer
























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        4 Answers
        4






        active

        oldest

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        4 Answers
        4






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes









        2














        The problem about this is that most of the time we want to read something about special people. Sure, we want to be able to sympathize with the character and for example superhero comics have a history of making it look like everyone could be Superman - or Shazam the 14-year-old-boy-transformed-into-a-superhero - but characters in books, comics, etc. tend to be special in some regards. By giving your protagonist a name that seemingly every second person has they can appear quite boring.



        What name do you think would be more memorable: "Shazam" or "Billy"?



        Yes, the protagonist in the linked comic series is named "Billy", quite the typical name. But most people will likely find his superhero form more memorable. Maybe you could use this and give your "Juan" and "Maria" interesting and memorable nicknames. Especially if they have a name that seemingly everyone else around them had that could be a reason to try and stand out. How do your characters feel about their name? Do they like this typical name? Maybe they like the feeling of proudly representing the majority. Or maybe they want to be special. Different. Not just another "Juan" or "Maria".



        A lot of this depends on the setting. In fantasy or sci-fi settings it's far easier to just come up with new names. In modern day settings like in a thriller you will more likely use "normal" names. But this also depends on a lot of factors. Are you in a rural area where older names are more present? Or a metropolitan city with influences from all around the globe? Is the social class of your characters focused on traditions or innovation?



        As you mention that you have a setting with lots of people from all over the world you could use steretypical names a few times. Maybe one or two out of a group of five people would feel like something that can actually happen while still not feeling as if you were simply too lazy to look up other names. But you should think about other options to refer to these characters and you should think about how the characters feel about their own names.






        share|improve this answer



























          2














          The problem about this is that most of the time we want to read something about special people. Sure, we want to be able to sympathize with the character and for example superhero comics have a history of making it look like everyone could be Superman - or Shazam the 14-year-old-boy-transformed-into-a-superhero - but characters in books, comics, etc. tend to be special in some regards. By giving your protagonist a name that seemingly every second person has they can appear quite boring.



          What name do you think would be more memorable: "Shazam" or "Billy"?



          Yes, the protagonist in the linked comic series is named "Billy", quite the typical name. But most people will likely find his superhero form more memorable. Maybe you could use this and give your "Juan" and "Maria" interesting and memorable nicknames. Especially if they have a name that seemingly everyone else around them had that could be a reason to try and stand out. How do your characters feel about their name? Do they like this typical name? Maybe they like the feeling of proudly representing the majority. Or maybe they want to be special. Different. Not just another "Juan" or "Maria".



          A lot of this depends on the setting. In fantasy or sci-fi settings it's far easier to just come up with new names. In modern day settings like in a thriller you will more likely use "normal" names. But this also depends on a lot of factors. Are you in a rural area where older names are more present? Or a metropolitan city with influences from all around the globe? Is the social class of your characters focused on traditions or innovation?



          As you mention that you have a setting with lots of people from all over the world you could use steretypical names a few times. Maybe one or two out of a group of five people would feel like something that can actually happen while still not feeling as if you were simply too lazy to look up other names. But you should think about other options to refer to these characters and you should think about how the characters feel about their own names.






          share|improve this answer

























            2












            2








            2







            The problem about this is that most of the time we want to read something about special people. Sure, we want to be able to sympathize with the character and for example superhero comics have a history of making it look like everyone could be Superman - or Shazam the 14-year-old-boy-transformed-into-a-superhero - but characters in books, comics, etc. tend to be special in some regards. By giving your protagonist a name that seemingly every second person has they can appear quite boring.



            What name do you think would be more memorable: "Shazam" or "Billy"?



            Yes, the protagonist in the linked comic series is named "Billy", quite the typical name. But most people will likely find his superhero form more memorable. Maybe you could use this and give your "Juan" and "Maria" interesting and memorable nicknames. Especially if they have a name that seemingly everyone else around them had that could be a reason to try and stand out. How do your characters feel about their name? Do they like this typical name? Maybe they like the feeling of proudly representing the majority. Or maybe they want to be special. Different. Not just another "Juan" or "Maria".



            A lot of this depends on the setting. In fantasy or sci-fi settings it's far easier to just come up with new names. In modern day settings like in a thriller you will more likely use "normal" names. But this also depends on a lot of factors. Are you in a rural area where older names are more present? Or a metropolitan city with influences from all around the globe? Is the social class of your characters focused on traditions or innovation?



            As you mention that you have a setting with lots of people from all over the world you could use steretypical names a few times. Maybe one or two out of a group of five people would feel like something that can actually happen while still not feeling as if you were simply too lazy to look up other names. But you should think about other options to refer to these characters and you should think about how the characters feel about their own names.






            share|improve this answer













            The problem about this is that most of the time we want to read something about special people. Sure, we want to be able to sympathize with the character and for example superhero comics have a history of making it look like everyone could be Superman - or Shazam the 14-year-old-boy-transformed-into-a-superhero - but characters in books, comics, etc. tend to be special in some regards. By giving your protagonist a name that seemingly every second person has they can appear quite boring.



            What name do you think would be more memorable: "Shazam" or "Billy"?



            Yes, the protagonist in the linked comic series is named "Billy", quite the typical name. But most people will likely find his superhero form more memorable. Maybe you could use this and give your "Juan" and "Maria" interesting and memorable nicknames. Especially if they have a name that seemingly everyone else around them had that could be a reason to try and stand out. How do your characters feel about their name? Do they like this typical name? Maybe they like the feeling of proudly representing the majority. Or maybe they want to be special. Different. Not just another "Juan" or "Maria".



            A lot of this depends on the setting. In fantasy or sci-fi settings it's far easier to just come up with new names. In modern day settings like in a thriller you will more likely use "normal" names. But this also depends on a lot of factors. Are you in a rural area where older names are more present? Or a metropolitan city with influences from all around the globe? Is the social class of your characters focused on traditions or innovation?



            As you mention that you have a setting with lots of people from all over the world you could use steretypical names a few times. Maybe one or two out of a group of five people would feel like something that can actually happen while still not feeling as if you were simply too lazy to look up other names. But you should think about other options to refer to these characters and you should think about how the characters feel about their own names.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered 1 hour ago









            SecespitusSecespitus

            6,69733274




            6,69733274





















                1














                There is nothing wrong with using common names for characters unless you over use them. If everyone has the most common names for their region, the readers may start paying attention to that instead of your story.



                That being said, there are ways of playing with it. You could use it to break expectations. Maybe Ivan is from the UK?



                Heck, any of them could be from the US.



                Maybe have two characters named John. One will end up being called by a nickname. My name isn't incredibly common but for one event we had five people with my first name on a radio net. That was a fun mess. With 95 people on the radio net, last names were out as well.



                Maybe have John meet Juan. Having the "same" name might be a running gag for the two.






                share|improve this answer



























                  1














                  There is nothing wrong with using common names for characters unless you over use them. If everyone has the most common names for their region, the readers may start paying attention to that instead of your story.



                  That being said, there are ways of playing with it. You could use it to break expectations. Maybe Ivan is from the UK?



                  Heck, any of them could be from the US.



                  Maybe have two characters named John. One will end up being called by a nickname. My name isn't incredibly common but for one event we had five people with my first name on a radio net. That was a fun mess. With 95 people on the radio net, last names were out as well.



                  Maybe have John meet Juan. Having the "same" name might be a running gag for the two.






                  share|improve this answer

























                    1












                    1








                    1







                    There is nothing wrong with using common names for characters unless you over use them. If everyone has the most common names for their region, the readers may start paying attention to that instead of your story.



                    That being said, there are ways of playing with it. You could use it to break expectations. Maybe Ivan is from the UK?



                    Heck, any of them could be from the US.



                    Maybe have two characters named John. One will end up being called by a nickname. My name isn't incredibly common but for one event we had five people with my first name on a radio net. That was a fun mess. With 95 people on the radio net, last names were out as well.



                    Maybe have John meet Juan. Having the "same" name might be a running gag for the two.






                    share|improve this answer













                    There is nothing wrong with using common names for characters unless you over use them. If everyone has the most common names for their region, the readers may start paying attention to that instead of your story.



                    That being said, there are ways of playing with it. You could use it to break expectations. Maybe Ivan is from the UK?



                    Heck, any of them could be from the US.



                    Maybe have two characters named John. One will end up being called by a nickname. My name isn't incredibly common but for one event we had five people with my first name on a radio net. That was a fun mess. With 95 people on the radio net, last names were out as well.



                    Maybe have John meet Juan. Having the "same" name might be a running gag for the two.







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered 1 hour ago









                    ShadoCatShadoCat

                    54114




                    54114





















                        1














                        I look for popular names, but not the MOST popular names. For example, I just googled "most popular names in the UK" and found this at the top link. An excerpt:



                        Boys



                        Oliver - 6,259
                        Harry - 5,031
                        George - 4,929
                        Noah - 4,273
                        Jack - 4,190
                        Jacob - 3,968
                        Leo - 3,781
                        Oscar - 3,739
                        Charlie - 3,724
                        Muhammad - 3,691


                        Girls



                        Olivia - 5,204
                        Amelia - 4,358
                        Isla - 3,373
                        Ava - 3,289
                        Emily - 3,121
                        Isabella - 2,627
                        Mia - 2,590
                        Poppy - 2,527
                        Ella - 2,452
                        Lily - 2,405


                        Just pick something not in the top 5, it would be realistic, but not obviously stereotypical of the region.






                        share|improve this answer























                        • Anyone else amused by the #1 names in both lists being the male and female equivalents of each other?

                          – Mason Wheeler
                          1 min ago















                        1














                        I look for popular names, but not the MOST popular names. For example, I just googled "most popular names in the UK" and found this at the top link. An excerpt:



                        Boys



                        Oliver - 6,259
                        Harry - 5,031
                        George - 4,929
                        Noah - 4,273
                        Jack - 4,190
                        Jacob - 3,968
                        Leo - 3,781
                        Oscar - 3,739
                        Charlie - 3,724
                        Muhammad - 3,691


                        Girls



                        Olivia - 5,204
                        Amelia - 4,358
                        Isla - 3,373
                        Ava - 3,289
                        Emily - 3,121
                        Isabella - 2,627
                        Mia - 2,590
                        Poppy - 2,527
                        Ella - 2,452
                        Lily - 2,405


                        Just pick something not in the top 5, it would be realistic, but not obviously stereotypical of the region.






                        share|improve this answer























                        • Anyone else amused by the #1 names in both lists being the male and female equivalents of each other?

                          – Mason Wheeler
                          1 min ago













                        1












                        1








                        1







                        I look for popular names, but not the MOST popular names. For example, I just googled "most popular names in the UK" and found this at the top link. An excerpt:



                        Boys



                        Oliver - 6,259
                        Harry - 5,031
                        George - 4,929
                        Noah - 4,273
                        Jack - 4,190
                        Jacob - 3,968
                        Leo - 3,781
                        Oscar - 3,739
                        Charlie - 3,724
                        Muhammad - 3,691


                        Girls



                        Olivia - 5,204
                        Amelia - 4,358
                        Isla - 3,373
                        Ava - 3,289
                        Emily - 3,121
                        Isabella - 2,627
                        Mia - 2,590
                        Poppy - 2,527
                        Ella - 2,452
                        Lily - 2,405


                        Just pick something not in the top 5, it would be realistic, but not obviously stereotypical of the region.






                        share|improve this answer













                        I look for popular names, but not the MOST popular names. For example, I just googled "most popular names in the UK" and found this at the top link. An excerpt:



                        Boys



                        Oliver - 6,259
                        Harry - 5,031
                        George - 4,929
                        Noah - 4,273
                        Jack - 4,190
                        Jacob - 3,968
                        Leo - 3,781
                        Oscar - 3,739
                        Charlie - 3,724
                        Muhammad - 3,691


                        Girls



                        Olivia - 5,204
                        Amelia - 4,358
                        Isla - 3,373
                        Ava - 3,289
                        Emily - 3,121
                        Isabella - 2,627
                        Mia - 2,590
                        Poppy - 2,527
                        Ella - 2,452
                        Lily - 2,405


                        Just pick something not in the top 5, it would be realistic, but not obviously stereotypical of the region.







                        share|improve this answer












                        share|improve this answer



                        share|improve this answer










                        answered 43 mins ago









                        AmadeusAmadeus

                        56.2k572183




                        56.2k572183












                        • Anyone else amused by the #1 names in both lists being the male and female equivalents of each other?

                          – Mason Wheeler
                          1 min ago

















                        • Anyone else amused by the #1 names in both lists being the male and female equivalents of each other?

                          – Mason Wheeler
                          1 min ago
















                        Anyone else amused by the #1 names in both lists being the male and female equivalents of each other?

                        – Mason Wheeler
                        1 min ago





                        Anyone else amused by the #1 names in both lists being the male and female equivalents of each other?

                        – Mason Wheeler
                        1 min ago











                        1














                        It is bad when your "national" character is one-dimensional. It is perfectly fine when this character is non-stereotypical.



                        Creating a "representative" characters with stereotypical names is a bad (and well-worn) practice when those characters also reinforce popular stereotypes of a certain nation or racial group. On the other hand, if such character has depth and well-developed, steretotypical name becomes insignificant.



                        This trope was humorously subverted in the 2002 movie The Cuckoo, in which one of the main characters, a Russian, has name "Ivan", but his newfound friend, Finnish sniper Veikko is not believing it because




                        when they first met and Veikko asks for Ivan's name, Ivan replies "Get lost!" (in Russian) - and this is how Veikko had called him ever since.







                        share|improve this answer





























                          1














                          It is bad when your "national" character is one-dimensional. It is perfectly fine when this character is non-stereotypical.



                          Creating a "representative" characters with stereotypical names is a bad (and well-worn) practice when those characters also reinforce popular stereotypes of a certain nation or racial group. On the other hand, if such character has depth and well-developed, steretotypical name becomes insignificant.



                          This trope was humorously subverted in the 2002 movie The Cuckoo, in which one of the main characters, a Russian, has name "Ivan", but his newfound friend, Finnish sniper Veikko is not believing it because




                          when they first met and Veikko asks for Ivan's name, Ivan replies "Get lost!" (in Russian) - and this is how Veikko had called him ever since.







                          share|improve this answer



























                            1












                            1








                            1







                            It is bad when your "national" character is one-dimensional. It is perfectly fine when this character is non-stereotypical.



                            Creating a "representative" characters with stereotypical names is a bad (and well-worn) practice when those characters also reinforce popular stereotypes of a certain nation or racial group. On the other hand, if such character has depth and well-developed, steretotypical name becomes insignificant.



                            This trope was humorously subverted in the 2002 movie The Cuckoo, in which one of the main characters, a Russian, has name "Ivan", but his newfound friend, Finnish sniper Veikko is not believing it because




                            when they first met and Veikko asks for Ivan's name, Ivan replies "Get lost!" (in Russian) - and this is how Veikko had called him ever since.







                            share|improve this answer















                            It is bad when your "national" character is one-dimensional. It is perfectly fine when this character is non-stereotypical.



                            Creating a "representative" characters with stereotypical names is a bad (and well-worn) practice when those characters also reinforce popular stereotypes of a certain nation or racial group. On the other hand, if such character has depth and well-developed, steretotypical name becomes insignificant.



                            This trope was humorously subverted in the 2002 movie The Cuckoo, in which one of the main characters, a Russian, has name "Ivan", but his newfound friend, Finnish sniper Veikko is not believing it because




                            when they first met and Veikko asks for Ivan's name, Ivan replies "Get lost!" (in Russian) - and this is how Veikko had called him ever since.








                            share|improve this answer














                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer








                            edited 27 mins ago

























                            answered 38 mins ago









                            AlexanderAlexander

                            3,640412




                            3,640412



























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