Language involving irrational number is not a CFLConstructing a Context Free Grammar for checking non-equality of stringsRecursive language with non-recursive subsetsHow can I prove this language is not CFL?How to convert this type of languages to Context Free grammar?Describe the language generated by a given context free grammarProving/Disproving that language L is non-regular/CFLHow is $a^nb^nc^2n$ not a context free language, where as $a^nb^mc^n+m$ is?Proving a grammar/language as not regularWhen proof by induction on length string is not possible?Context-free grammar from language

What is this high flying aircraft over Pennsylvania?

How much do grades matter for a future academia position?

Why can't the Brexit deadlock in the UK parliament be solved with a plurality vote?

Do I have to take mana from my deck or hand when tapping a dual land?

Would this string work as string?

Proving an identity involving cross products and coplanar vectors

Make a Bowl of Alphabet Soup

Can I cause damage to electrical appliances by unplugging them when they are turned on?

Limit max CPU usage SQL SERVER with WSRM

Overlapping circles covering polygon

Personal or impersonal in a technical resume

Why is participating in the European Parliamentary elections used as a threat?

Anime with legendary swords made from talismans and a man who could change them with a shattered body

Given this phrasing in the lease, when should I pay my rent?

How to make a list of partial sums using forEach

I'm just a whisper. Who am I?

Isometric embedding of a genus g surface

Difference between shutdown options

How do you justify more code being written by following clean code practices?

Pre-Employment Background Check With Consent For Future Checks

In One Punch Man, is King actually weak?

ContourPlot — How do I color by contour curvature?

What's the name of the logical fallacy where a debater extends a statement far beyond the original statement to make it true?

Has the laser at Magurele, Romania reached a tenth of the Sun's power?



Language involving irrational number is not a CFL


Constructing a Context Free Grammar for checking non-equality of stringsRecursive language with non-recursive subsetsHow can I prove this language is not CFL?How to convert this type of languages to Context Free grammar?Describe the language generated by a given context free grammarProving/Disproving that language L is non-regular/CFLHow is $a^nb^nc^2n$ not a context free language, where as $a^nb^mc^n+m$ is?Proving a grammar/language as not regularWhen proof by induction on length string is not possible?Context-free grammar from language













8












$begingroup$


I am working through a hard exercise in a textbook, and I just can't figure out how to proceed. Here is the problem. Suppose we have the language $L = a^ib^j: i leq j gamma, igeq 0, jgeq 1$ where $gamma$ is some irrational number. How would I prove that $L$ is not a context-free language?



In the case when $gamma$ is rational, it's pretty easy to construct a grammar that accepts the language. But because $gamma$ is irrational, I don't really know what to do. It doesn't look like any of the pumping lemmas would work here. Maybe Parikh's theorem would work here, since it would intuitively seem like this language doesn't have an accompanying semilinear Parikh image.



This exercise is from "A Second Course in Formal Languages and Automata Theory" by Jeffrey Shallit, Exercise 25 of Chapter 4.



I would really appreciate any help, or nudges in the right direction. Thank you!










share|cite|improve this question









New contributor




ChenyiShiwen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Have you tried applying Parikh’s theorem?
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    8 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    Why not show that it’s not semilinear directly? Use the definition.
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    7 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    Just in time for my homework! Thanks. CS 462/662 Formal Languages and Parsing Winter 2019, Problem Set 9, exercise 3. Due Friday, March 22 2019.
    $endgroup$
    – Hendrik Jan
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @ChenyiShiwen, so the pumping lemma does work.
    $endgroup$
    – Apass.Jack
    4 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @HendrikJan I'm selfstudying from the textbook "A Second Course in Formal Languages and Automata Theory" by Jeffrey Shallit. It is Exercise 25 of Chapter 4 fyi. Would it be possible to hide this post until the assignment is due?
    $endgroup$
    – ChenyiShiwen
    1 hour ago















8












$begingroup$


I am working through a hard exercise in a textbook, and I just can't figure out how to proceed. Here is the problem. Suppose we have the language $L = a^ib^j: i leq j gamma, igeq 0, jgeq 1$ where $gamma$ is some irrational number. How would I prove that $L$ is not a context-free language?



In the case when $gamma$ is rational, it's pretty easy to construct a grammar that accepts the language. But because $gamma$ is irrational, I don't really know what to do. It doesn't look like any of the pumping lemmas would work here. Maybe Parikh's theorem would work here, since it would intuitively seem like this language doesn't have an accompanying semilinear Parikh image.



This exercise is from "A Second Course in Formal Languages and Automata Theory" by Jeffrey Shallit, Exercise 25 of Chapter 4.



I would really appreciate any help, or nudges in the right direction. Thank you!










share|cite|improve this question









New contributor




ChenyiShiwen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Have you tried applying Parikh’s theorem?
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    8 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    Why not show that it’s not semilinear directly? Use the definition.
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    7 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    Just in time for my homework! Thanks. CS 462/662 Formal Languages and Parsing Winter 2019, Problem Set 9, exercise 3. Due Friday, March 22 2019.
    $endgroup$
    – Hendrik Jan
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @ChenyiShiwen, so the pumping lemma does work.
    $endgroup$
    – Apass.Jack
    4 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @HendrikJan I'm selfstudying from the textbook "A Second Course in Formal Languages and Automata Theory" by Jeffrey Shallit. It is Exercise 25 of Chapter 4 fyi. Would it be possible to hide this post until the assignment is due?
    $endgroup$
    – ChenyiShiwen
    1 hour ago













8












8








8





$begingroup$


I am working through a hard exercise in a textbook, and I just can't figure out how to proceed. Here is the problem. Suppose we have the language $L = a^ib^j: i leq j gamma, igeq 0, jgeq 1$ where $gamma$ is some irrational number. How would I prove that $L$ is not a context-free language?



In the case when $gamma$ is rational, it's pretty easy to construct a grammar that accepts the language. But because $gamma$ is irrational, I don't really know what to do. It doesn't look like any of the pumping lemmas would work here. Maybe Parikh's theorem would work here, since it would intuitively seem like this language doesn't have an accompanying semilinear Parikh image.



This exercise is from "A Second Course in Formal Languages and Automata Theory" by Jeffrey Shallit, Exercise 25 of Chapter 4.



I would really appreciate any help, or nudges in the right direction. Thank you!










share|cite|improve this question









New contributor




ChenyiShiwen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$




I am working through a hard exercise in a textbook, and I just can't figure out how to proceed. Here is the problem. Suppose we have the language $L = a^ib^j: i leq j gamma, igeq 0, jgeq 1$ where $gamma$ is some irrational number. How would I prove that $L$ is not a context-free language?



In the case when $gamma$ is rational, it's pretty easy to construct a grammar that accepts the language. But because $gamma$ is irrational, I don't really know what to do. It doesn't look like any of the pumping lemmas would work here. Maybe Parikh's theorem would work here, since it would intuitively seem like this language doesn't have an accompanying semilinear Parikh image.



This exercise is from "A Second Course in Formal Languages and Automata Theory" by Jeffrey Shallit, Exercise 25 of Chapter 4.



I would really appreciate any help, or nudges in the right direction. Thank you!







formal-languages automata context-free






share|cite|improve this question









New contributor




ChenyiShiwen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|cite|improve this question









New contributor




ChenyiShiwen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited 38 mins ago









D.W.♦

102k12127291




102k12127291






New contributor




ChenyiShiwen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









asked 8 hours ago









ChenyiShiwenChenyiShiwen

434




434




New contributor




ChenyiShiwen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





ChenyiShiwen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






ChenyiShiwen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











  • $begingroup$
    Have you tried applying Parikh’s theorem?
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    8 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    Why not show that it’s not semilinear directly? Use the definition.
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    7 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    Just in time for my homework! Thanks. CS 462/662 Formal Languages and Parsing Winter 2019, Problem Set 9, exercise 3. Due Friday, March 22 2019.
    $endgroup$
    – Hendrik Jan
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @ChenyiShiwen, so the pumping lemma does work.
    $endgroup$
    – Apass.Jack
    4 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @HendrikJan I'm selfstudying from the textbook "A Second Course in Formal Languages and Automata Theory" by Jeffrey Shallit. It is Exercise 25 of Chapter 4 fyi. Would it be possible to hide this post until the assignment is due?
    $endgroup$
    – ChenyiShiwen
    1 hour ago
















  • $begingroup$
    Have you tried applying Parikh’s theorem?
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    8 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    Why not show that it’s not semilinear directly? Use the definition.
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    7 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    Just in time for my homework! Thanks. CS 462/662 Formal Languages and Parsing Winter 2019, Problem Set 9, exercise 3. Due Friday, March 22 2019.
    $endgroup$
    – Hendrik Jan
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @ChenyiShiwen, so the pumping lemma does work.
    $endgroup$
    – Apass.Jack
    4 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @HendrikJan I'm selfstudying from the textbook "A Second Course in Formal Languages and Automata Theory" by Jeffrey Shallit. It is Exercise 25 of Chapter 4 fyi. Would it be possible to hide this post until the assignment is due?
    $endgroup$
    – ChenyiShiwen
    1 hour ago















$begingroup$
Have you tried applying Parikh’s theorem?
$endgroup$
– Yuval Filmus
8 hours ago





$begingroup$
Have you tried applying Parikh’s theorem?
$endgroup$
– Yuval Filmus
8 hours ago













$begingroup$
Why not show that it’s not semilinear directly? Use the definition.
$endgroup$
– Yuval Filmus
7 hours ago




$begingroup$
Why not show that it’s not semilinear directly? Use the definition.
$endgroup$
– Yuval Filmus
7 hours ago




3




3




$begingroup$
Just in time for my homework! Thanks. CS 462/662 Formal Languages and Parsing Winter 2019, Problem Set 9, exercise 3. Due Friday, March 22 2019.
$endgroup$
– Hendrik Jan
4 hours ago





$begingroup$
Just in time for my homework! Thanks. CS 462/662 Formal Languages and Parsing Winter 2019, Problem Set 9, exercise 3. Due Friday, March 22 2019.
$endgroup$
– Hendrik Jan
4 hours ago













$begingroup$
@ChenyiShiwen, so the pumping lemma does work.
$endgroup$
– Apass.Jack
4 hours ago




$begingroup$
@ChenyiShiwen, so the pumping lemma does work.
$endgroup$
– Apass.Jack
4 hours ago












$begingroup$
@HendrikJan I'm selfstudying from the textbook "A Second Course in Formal Languages and Automata Theory" by Jeffrey Shallit. It is Exercise 25 of Chapter 4 fyi. Would it be possible to hide this post until the assignment is due?
$endgroup$
– ChenyiShiwen
1 hour ago




$begingroup$
@HendrikJan I'm selfstudying from the textbook "A Second Course in Formal Languages and Automata Theory" by Jeffrey Shallit. It is Exercise 25 of Chapter 4 fyi. Would it be possible to hide this post until the assignment is due?
$endgroup$
– ChenyiShiwen
1 hour ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















6












$begingroup$

According to Parikh's theorem, if $L$ were context-free then the set $M = (a,b) : a leq gamma b $ would be semilinear, that is, it would be the union of finitely many sets of the form $S = u_0 + mathbbN u_1 + cdots + mathbbN u_ell$, for some $u_i = (a_i,b_i)$.



Obviously $u_0 in M$, and moreover $u_i in M$ for each $i > 0$, since otherwise $u_0 + N u_i notin M$ for large enough $N$. Therefore $g(S) := max(a_0/b_0,ldots,a_ell/b_ell) < gamma$ (since $g(S)$ is rational). This means that every $(a,b) in S$ satisfies $a/b leq g(S)$.



Now suppose that $M$ is the union of $S^(1),ldots,S^(m)$, and define $g = max(g(S^(1)),ldots,g(S^(m))) < gamma$. The foregoing shows that every $(a,b)$ in the union satisfies $a/b leq g < gamma$, and we obtain a contradiction, since $sup a/b : (a,b) in M = gamma$.




When $gamma$ is rational, the proof fails, and indeed $M$ is semilinear:
$$
(a,b) : a leq tfracst b = bigcup_a=0^s-1 (a,lceil tfracts a rceil) + mathbbN (s,t) + mathbbN (0,1).
$$

Indeed, by construction, any pair $(a,b)$ in the right-hand side satisfies $a leq tfracst b$ (since $s = tfracst t$). Conversely, suppose that $a leq fracst b$. While $a geq s$ and $b geq t$, subtract $(s,t)$ from $(a,b)$. Eventually $a < s$ (since $b < t$ implies $a leq fracstb < s$). Since $a leq fracst b$, necessarily $b geq lceil tfracts a rceil$. Hence we can subtract $(0,1)$ from $(a,b)$ until we reach $(a,lceil tfracts a rceil)$.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Nice answer. Just a clarification, the logic behind "every $(a,b) in S$ satisfies $a/b leq g(S)$" is that otherwise if there was an $(a,b)> g(S)$, then we could build an $(x,y)in S$ such that $x/y$ is as large as wanted and therefore larger than $gamma$?
    $endgroup$
    – ChenyiShiwen
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    No, this follows directly from the definition of $g(S)$. Your argument explains why $g(S) < gamma$.
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    4 hours ago


















4












$begingroup$

Every variable except $gamma$ in this answer stands for a positive integer. It is well-known that given an irrational $gamma>0$, there is a sequence of rational numbers $dfraca_1b_1ltdfraca_2b_2ltdfraca_3b_3ltcdots ltgamma$ such that $dfraca_ib_i$ is nearer to $gamma$ than any other rational number smaller than $gamma$ whose denominator is less than $b_i$.




It turns out that the pumping lemma does work!



For the sake of contradiction, let $p$ be the pumping length of $L$ as a context-free language. Let $s=a^a_pb^b_p$, a word that is $L$ but "barely". Note that $|s|>b_pge p$. Consider
$s=uvwxy$, where $|vx|> 1$ and $s_n=uv^nwx^nyin L$ for all $nge0$.



Let $t_a$ and $t_b$ be the number of $a$s and $b$s in $vx$ respectively.



  • If $t_b=0$ or $dfract_at_bgtgamma$, for $n$ large enough, the ratio of the number of $a$s to that of $b$s in $s_n$ will be larger than $gamma$, i.e., $s_nnotin L$.

  • Otherwise, $dfract_at_bltgamma$. Since $t_b<b_p$, $dfract_at_blt dfraca_pb_p$. Hence,
    $dfraca_p-t_ab_p-t_b>dfraca_pb_p$
    Since $b_p-t_b<b_p$, $dfraca_p-t_ab_p-t_b>gamma,$
    which says that $s_0notin L$.

The above contradiction shows that $L$ cannot be context-free.




Here are two related easier exercises.



Exercise 1. Show that $L_gamma=a^lfloor i gammarfloor: iinBbb N$ is not context-free where $gamma$ is an irrational number.



Exercise 2. Show that $L_gamma=a^ib^j: i leq j gamma, i ge0, jge 0$ is context-free where $gamma$ is a rational number.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    The property in the answer can be proved simply by selecting all rational numbers that is nearer to $gamma$ than all previous numbers in the list of all rational numbers that are smaller than $gamma$ in the order of increasing denominators and, for the same denominators, in increasing order.
    $endgroup$
    – Apass.Jack
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    The usual construction is to take convergents of the continued fraction.
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @YuvalFilmus Yes, I agree. On the other hand, that almost-one-line proof is much simpler and accessible. (the "increasing order" in my last message should be "decreasing order".)
    $endgroup$
    – Apass.Jack
    3 hours ago











Your Answer





StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
);
);
, "mathjax-editing");

StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "419"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);

else
createEditor();

);

function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);



);






ChenyiShiwen is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









draft saved

draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fcs.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f105836%2flanguage-involving-irrational-number-is-not-a-cfl%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown

























2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









6












$begingroup$

According to Parikh's theorem, if $L$ were context-free then the set $M = (a,b) : a leq gamma b $ would be semilinear, that is, it would be the union of finitely many sets of the form $S = u_0 + mathbbN u_1 + cdots + mathbbN u_ell$, for some $u_i = (a_i,b_i)$.



Obviously $u_0 in M$, and moreover $u_i in M$ for each $i > 0$, since otherwise $u_0 + N u_i notin M$ for large enough $N$. Therefore $g(S) := max(a_0/b_0,ldots,a_ell/b_ell) < gamma$ (since $g(S)$ is rational). This means that every $(a,b) in S$ satisfies $a/b leq g(S)$.



Now suppose that $M$ is the union of $S^(1),ldots,S^(m)$, and define $g = max(g(S^(1)),ldots,g(S^(m))) < gamma$. The foregoing shows that every $(a,b)$ in the union satisfies $a/b leq g < gamma$, and we obtain a contradiction, since $sup a/b : (a,b) in M = gamma$.




When $gamma$ is rational, the proof fails, and indeed $M$ is semilinear:
$$
(a,b) : a leq tfracst b = bigcup_a=0^s-1 (a,lceil tfracts a rceil) + mathbbN (s,t) + mathbbN (0,1).
$$

Indeed, by construction, any pair $(a,b)$ in the right-hand side satisfies $a leq tfracst b$ (since $s = tfracst t$). Conversely, suppose that $a leq fracst b$. While $a geq s$ and $b geq t$, subtract $(s,t)$ from $(a,b)$. Eventually $a < s$ (since $b < t$ implies $a leq fracstb < s$). Since $a leq fracst b$, necessarily $b geq lceil tfracts a rceil$. Hence we can subtract $(0,1)$ from $(a,b)$ until we reach $(a,lceil tfracts a rceil)$.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Nice answer. Just a clarification, the logic behind "every $(a,b) in S$ satisfies $a/b leq g(S)$" is that otherwise if there was an $(a,b)> g(S)$, then we could build an $(x,y)in S$ such that $x/y$ is as large as wanted and therefore larger than $gamma$?
    $endgroup$
    – ChenyiShiwen
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    No, this follows directly from the definition of $g(S)$. Your argument explains why $g(S) < gamma$.
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    4 hours ago















6












$begingroup$

According to Parikh's theorem, if $L$ were context-free then the set $M = (a,b) : a leq gamma b $ would be semilinear, that is, it would be the union of finitely many sets of the form $S = u_0 + mathbbN u_1 + cdots + mathbbN u_ell$, for some $u_i = (a_i,b_i)$.



Obviously $u_0 in M$, and moreover $u_i in M$ for each $i > 0$, since otherwise $u_0 + N u_i notin M$ for large enough $N$. Therefore $g(S) := max(a_0/b_0,ldots,a_ell/b_ell) < gamma$ (since $g(S)$ is rational). This means that every $(a,b) in S$ satisfies $a/b leq g(S)$.



Now suppose that $M$ is the union of $S^(1),ldots,S^(m)$, and define $g = max(g(S^(1)),ldots,g(S^(m))) < gamma$. The foregoing shows that every $(a,b)$ in the union satisfies $a/b leq g < gamma$, and we obtain a contradiction, since $sup a/b : (a,b) in M = gamma$.




When $gamma$ is rational, the proof fails, and indeed $M$ is semilinear:
$$
(a,b) : a leq tfracst b = bigcup_a=0^s-1 (a,lceil tfracts a rceil) + mathbbN (s,t) + mathbbN (0,1).
$$

Indeed, by construction, any pair $(a,b)$ in the right-hand side satisfies $a leq tfracst b$ (since $s = tfracst t$). Conversely, suppose that $a leq fracst b$. While $a geq s$ and $b geq t$, subtract $(s,t)$ from $(a,b)$. Eventually $a < s$ (since $b < t$ implies $a leq fracstb < s$). Since $a leq fracst b$, necessarily $b geq lceil tfracts a rceil$. Hence we can subtract $(0,1)$ from $(a,b)$ until we reach $(a,lceil tfracts a rceil)$.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Nice answer. Just a clarification, the logic behind "every $(a,b) in S$ satisfies $a/b leq g(S)$" is that otherwise if there was an $(a,b)> g(S)$, then we could build an $(x,y)in S$ such that $x/y$ is as large as wanted and therefore larger than $gamma$?
    $endgroup$
    – ChenyiShiwen
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    No, this follows directly from the definition of $g(S)$. Your argument explains why $g(S) < gamma$.
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    4 hours ago













6












6








6





$begingroup$

According to Parikh's theorem, if $L$ were context-free then the set $M = (a,b) : a leq gamma b $ would be semilinear, that is, it would be the union of finitely many sets of the form $S = u_0 + mathbbN u_1 + cdots + mathbbN u_ell$, for some $u_i = (a_i,b_i)$.



Obviously $u_0 in M$, and moreover $u_i in M$ for each $i > 0$, since otherwise $u_0 + N u_i notin M$ for large enough $N$. Therefore $g(S) := max(a_0/b_0,ldots,a_ell/b_ell) < gamma$ (since $g(S)$ is rational). This means that every $(a,b) in S$ satisfies $a/b leq g(S)$.



Now suppose that $M$ is the union of $S^(1),ldots,S^(m)$, and define $g = max(g(S^(1)),ldots,g(S^(m))) < gamma$. The foregoing shows that every $(a,b)$ in the union satisfies $a/b leq g < gamma$, and we obtain a contradiction, since $sup a/b : (a,b) in M = gamma$.




When $gamma$ is rational, the proof fails, and indeed $M$ is semilinear:
$$
(a,b) : a leq tfracst b = bigcup_a=0^s-1 (a,lceil tfracts a rceil) + mathbbN (s,t) + mathbbN (0,1).
$$

Indeed, by construction, any pair $(a,b)$ in the right-hand side satisfies $a leq tfracst b$ (since $s = tfracst t$). Conversely, suppose that $a leq fracst b$. While $a geq s$ and $b geq t$, subtract $(s,t)$ from $(a,b)$. Eventually $a < s$ (since $b < t$ implies $a leq fracstb < s$). Since $a leq fracst b$, necessarily $b geq lceil tfracts a rceil$. Hence we can subtract $(0,1)$ from $(a,b)$ until we reach $(a,lceil tfracts a rceil)$.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$



According to Parikh's theorem, if $L$ were context-free then the set $M = (a,b) : a leq gamma b $ would be semilinear, that is, it would be the union of finitely many sets of the form $S = u_0 + mathbbN u_1 + cdots + mathbbN u_ell$, for some $u_i = (a_i,b_i)$.



Obviously $u_0 in M$, and moreover $u_i in M$ for each $i > 0$, since otherwise $u_0 + N u_i notin M$ for large enough $N$. Therefore $g(S) := max(a_0/b_0,ldots,a_ell/b_ell) < gamma$ (since $g(S)$ is rational). This means that every $(a,b) in S$ satisfies $a/b leq g(S)$.



Now suppose that $M$ is the union of $S^(1),ldots,S^(m)$, and define $g = max(g(S^(1)),ldots,g(S^(m))) < gamma$. The foregoing shows that every $(a,b)$ in the union satisfies $a/b leq g < gamma$, and we obtain a contradiction, since $sup a/b : (a,b) in M = gamma$.




When $gamma$ is rational, the proof fails, and indeed $M$ is semilinear:
$$
(a,b) : a leq tfracst b = bigcup_a=0^s-1 (a,lceil tfracts a rceil) + mathbbN (s,t) + mathbbN (0,1).
$$

Indeed, by construction, any pair $(a,b)$ in the right-hand side satisfies $a leq tfracst b$ (since $s = tfracst t$). Conversely, suppose that $a leq fracst b$. While $a geq s$ and $b geq t$, subtract $(s,t)$ from $(a,b)$. Eventually $a < s$ (since $b < t$ implies $a leq fracstb < s$). Since $a leq fracst b$, necessarily $b geq lceil tfracts a rceil$. Hence we can subtract $(0,1)$ from $(a,b)$ until we reach $(a,lceil tfracts a rceil)$.







share|cite|improve this answer












share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer










answered 5 hours ago









Yuval FilmusYuval Filmus

195k14183347




195k14183347











  • $begingroup$
    Nice answer. Just a clarification, the logic behind "every $(a,b) in S$ satisfies $a/b leq g(S)$" is that otherwise if there was an $(a,b)> g(S)$, then we could build an $(x,y)in S$ such that $x/y$ is as large as wanted and therefore larger than $gamma$?
    $endgroup$
    – ChenyiShiwen
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    No, this follows directly from the definition of $g(S)$. Your argument explains why $g(S) < gamma$.
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    4 hours ago
















  • $begingroup$
    Nice answer. Just a clarification, the logic behind "every $(a,b) in S$ satisfies $a/b leq g(S)$" is that otherwise if there was an $(a,b)> g(S)$, then we could build an $(x,y)in S$ such that $x/y$ is as large as wanted and therefore larger than $gamma$?
    $endgroup$
    – ChenyiShiwen
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    No, this follows directly from the definition of $g(S)$. Your argument explains why $g(S) < gamma$.
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    4 hours ago















$begingroup$
Nice answer. Just a clarification, the logic behind "every $(a,b) in S$ satisfies $a/b leq g(S)$" is that otherwise if there was an $(a,b)> g(S)$, then we could build an $(x,y)in S$ such that $x/y$ is as large as wanted and therefore larger than $gamma$?
$endgroup$
– ChenyiShiwen
4 hours ago





$begingroup$
Nice answer. Just a clarification, the logic behind "every $(a,b) in S$ satisfies $a/b leq g(S)$" is that otherwise if there was an $(a,b)> g(S)$, then we could build an $(x,y)in S$ such that $x/y$ is as large as wanted and therefore larger than $gamma$?
$endgroup$
– ChenyiShiwen
4 hours ago













$begingroup$
No, this follows directly from the definition of $g(S)$. Your argument explains why $g(S) < gamma$.
$endgroup$
– Yuval Filmus
4 hours ago




$begingroup$
No, this follows directly from the definition of $g(S)$. Your argument explains why $g(S) < gamma$.
$endgroup$
– Yuval Filmus
4 hours ago











4












$begingroup$

Every variable except $gamma$ in this answer stands for a positive integer. It is well-known that given an irrational $gamma>0$, there is a sequence of rational numbers $dfraca_1b_1ltdfraca_2b_2ltdfraca_3b_3ltcdots ltgamma$ such that $dfraca_ib_i$ is nearer to $gamma$ than any other rational number smaller than $gamma$ whose denominator is less than $b_i$.




It turns out that the pumping lemma does work!



For the sake of contradiction, let $p$ be the pumping length of $L$ as a context-free language. Let $s=a^a_pb^b_p$, a word that is $L$ but "barely". Note that $|s|>b_pge p$. Consider
$s=uvwxy$, where $|vx|> 1$ and $s_n=uv^nwx^nyin L$ for all $nge0$.



Let $t_a$ and $t_b$ be the number of $a$s and $b$s in $vx$ respectively.



  • If $t_b=0$ or $dfract_at_bgtgamma$, for $n$ large enough, the ratio of the number of $a$s to that of $b$s in $s_n$ will be larger than $gamma$, i.e., $s_nnotin L$.

  • Otherwise, $dfract_at_bltgamma$. Since $t_b<b_p$, $dfract_at_blt dfraca_pb_p$. Hence,
    $dfraca_p-t_ab_p-t_b>dfraca_pb_p$
    Since $b_p-t_b<b_p$, $dfraca_p-t_ab_p-t_b>gamma,$
    which says that $s_0notin L$.

The above contradiction shows that $L$ cannot be context-free.




Here are two related easier exercises.



Exercise 1. Show that $L_gamma=a^lfloor i gammarfloor: iinBbb N$ is not context-free where $gamma$ is an irrational number.



Exercise 2. Show that $L_gamma=a^ib^j: i leq j gamma, i ge0, jge 0$ is context-free where $gamma$ is a rational number.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    The property in the answer can be proved simply by selecting all rational numbers that is nearer to $gamma$ than all previous numbers in the list of all rational numbers that are smaller than $gamma$ in the order of increasing denominators and, for the same denominators, in increasing order.
    $endgroup$
    – Apass.Jack
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    The usual construction is to take convergents of the continued fraction.
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @YuvalFilmus Yes, I agree. On the other hand, that almost-one-line proof is much simpler and accessible. (the "increasing order" in my last message should be "decreasing order".)
    $endgroup$
    – Apass.Jack
    3 hours ago
















4












$begingroup$

Every variable except $gamma$ in this answer stands for a positive integer. It is well-known that given an irrational $gamma>0$, there is a sequence of rational numbers $dfraca_1b_1ltdfraca_2b_2ltdfraca_3b_3ltcdots ltgamma$ such that $dfraca_ib_i$ is nearer to $gamma$ than any other rational number smaller than $gamma$ whose denominator is less than $b_i$.




It turns out that the pumping lemma does work!



For the sake of contradiction, let $p$ be the pumping length of $L$ as a context-free language. Let $s=a^a_pb^b_p$, a word that is $L$ but "barely". Note that $|s|>b_pge p$. Consider
$s=uvwxy$, where $|vx|> 1$ and $s_n=uv^nwx^nyin L$ for all $nge0$.



Let $t_a$ and $t_b$ be the number of $a$s and $b$s in $vx$ respectively.



  • If $t_b=0$ or $dfract_at_bgtgamma$, for $n$ large enough, the ratio of the number of $a$s to that of $b$s in $s_n$ will be larger than $gamma$, i.e., $s_nnotin L$.

  • Otherwise, $dfract_at_bltgamma$. Since $t_b<b_p$, $dfract_at_blt dfraca_pb_p$. Hence,
    $dfraca_p-t_ab_p-t_b>dfraca_pb_p$
    Since $b_p-t_b<b_p$, $dfraca_p-t_ab_p-t_b>gamma,$
    which says that $s_0notin L$.

The above contradiction shows that $L$ cannot be context-free.




Here are two related easier exercises.



Exercise 1. Show that $L_gamma=a^lfloor i gammarfloor: iinBbb N$ is not context-free where $gamma$ is an irrational number.



Exercise 2. Show that $L_gamma=a^ib^j: i leq j gamma, i ge0, jge 0$ is context-free where $gamma$ is a rational number.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    The property in the answer can be proved simply by selecting all rational numbers that is nearer to $gamma$ than all previous numbers in the list of all rational numbers that are smaller than $gamma$ in the order of increasing denominators and, for the same denominators, in increasing order.
    $endgroup$
    – Apass.Jack
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    The usual construction is to take convergents of the continued fraction.
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @YuvalFilmus Yes, I agree. On the other hand, that almost-one-line proof is much simpler and accessible. (the "increasing order" in my last message should be "decreasing order".)
    $endgroup$
    – Apass.Jack
    3 hours ago














4












4








4





$begingroup$

Every variable except $gamma$ in this answer stands for a positive integer. It is well-known that given an irrational $gamma>0$, there is a sequence of rational numbers $dfraca_1b_1ltdfraca_2b_2ltdfraca_3b_3ltcdots ltgamma$ such that $dfraca_ib_i$ is nearer to $gamma$ than any other rational number smaller than $gamma$ whose denominator is less than $b_i$.




It turns out that the pumping lemma does work!



For the sake of contradiction, let $p$ be the pumping length of $L$ as a context-free language. Let $s=a^a_pb^b_p$, a word that is $L$ but "barely". Note that $|s|>b_pge p$. Consider
$s=uvwxy$, where $|vx|> 1$ and $s_n=uv^nwx^nyin L$ for all $nge0$.



Let $t_a$ and $t_b$ be the number of $a$s and $b$s in $vx$ respectively.



  • If $t_b=0$ or $dfract_at_bgtgamma$, for $n$ large enough, the ratio of the number of $a$s to that of $b$s in $s_n$ will be larger than $gamma$, i.e., $s_nnotin L$.

  • Otherwise, $dfract_at_bltgamma$. Since $t_b<b_p$, $dfract_at_blt dfraca_pb_p$. Hence,
    $dfraca_p-t_ab_p-t_b>dfraca_pb_p$
    Since $b_p-t_b<b_p$, $dfraca_p-t_ab_p-t_b>gamma,$
    which says that $s_0notin L$.

The above contradiction shows that $L$ cannot be context-free.




Here are two related easier exercises.



Exercise 1. Show that $L_gamma=a^lfloor i gammarfloor: iinBbb N$ is not context-free where $gamma$ is an irrational number.



Exercise 2. Show that $L_gamma=a^ib^j: i leq j gamma, i ge0, jge 0$ is context-free where $gamma$ is a rational number.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$



Every variable except $gamma$ in this answer stands for a positive integer. It is well-known that given an irrational $gamma>0$, there is a sequence of rational numbers $dfraca_1b_1ltdfraca_2b_2ltdfraca_3b_3ltcdots ltgamma$ such that $dfraca_ib_i$ is nearer to $gamma$ than any other rational number smaller than $gamma$ whose denominator is less than $b_i$.




It turns out that the pumping lemma does work!



For the sake of contradiction, let $p$ be the pumping length of $L$ as a context-free language. Let $s=a^a_pb^b_p$, a word that is $L$ but "barely". Note that $|s|>b_pge p$. Consider
$s=uvwxy$, where $|vx|> 1$ and $s_n=uv^nwx^nyin L$ for all $nge0$.



Let $t_a$ and $t_b$ be the number of $a$s and $b$s in $vx$ respectively.



  • If $t_b=0$ or $dfract_at_bgtgamma$, for $n$ large enough, the ratio of the number of $a$s to that of $b$s in $s_n$ will be larger than $gamma$, i.e., $s_nnotin L$.

  • Otherwise, $dfract_at_bltgamma$. Since $t_b<b_p$, $dfract_at_blt dfraca_pb_p$. Hence,
    $dfraca_p-t_ab_p-t_b>dfraca_pb_p$
    Since $b_p-t_b<b_p$, $dfraca_p-t_ab_p-t_b>gamma,$
    which says that $s_0notin L$.

The above contradiction shows that $L$ cannot be context-free.




Here are two related easier exercises.



Exercise 1. Show that $L_gamma=a^lfloor i gammarfloor: iinBbb N$ is not context-free where $gamma$ is an irrational number.



Exercise 2. Show that $L_gamma=a^ib^j: i leq j gamma, i ge0, jge 0$ is context-free where $gamma$ is a rational number.







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited 3 hours ago

























answered 4 hours ago









Apass.JackApass.Jack

13.1k1939




13.1k1939











  • $begingroup$
    The property in the answer can be proved simply by selecting all rational numbers that is nearer to $gamma$ than all previous numbers in the list of all rational numbers that are smaller than $gamma$ in the order of increasing denominators and, for the same denominators, in increasing order.
    $endgroup$
    – Apass.Jack
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    The usual construction is to take convergents of the continued fraction.
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @YuvalFilmus Yes, I agree. On the other hand, that almost-one-line proof is much simpler and accessible. (the "increasing order" in my last message should be "decreasing order".)
    $endgroup$
    – Apass.Jack
    3 hours ago

















  • $begingroup$
    The property in the answer can be proved simply by selecting all rational numbers that is nearer to $gamma$ than all previous numbers in the list of all rational numbers that are smaller than $gamma$ in the order of increasing denominators and, for the same denominators, in increasing order.
    $endgroup$
    – Apass.Jack
    4 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    The usual construction is to take convergents of the continued fraction.
    $endgroup$
    – Yuval Filmus
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @YuvalFilmus Yes, I agree. On the other hand, that almost-one-line proof is much simpler and accessible. (the "increasing order" in my last message should be "decreasing order".)
    $endgroup$
    – Apass.Jack
    3 hours ago
















$begingroup$
The property in the answer can be proved simply by selecting all rational numbers that is nearer to $gamma$ than all previous numbers in the list of all rational numbers that are smaller than $gamma$ in the order of increasing denominators and, for the same denominators, in increasing order.
$endgroup$
– Apass.Jack
4 hours ago





$begingroup$
The property in the answer can be proved simply by selecting all rational numbers that is nearer to $gamma$ than all previous numbers in the list of all rational numbers that are smaller than $gamma$ in the order of increasing denominators and, for the same denominators, in increasing order.
$endgroup$
– Apass.Jack
4 hours ago













$begingroup$
The usual construction is to take convergents of the continued fraction.
$endgroup$
– Yuval Filmus
3 hours ago




$begingroup$
The usual construction is to take convergents of the continued fraction.
$endgroup$
– Yuval Filmus
3 hours ago












$begingroup$
@YuvalFilmus Yes, I agree. On the other hand, that almost-one-line proof is much simpler and accessible. (the "increasing order" in my last message should be "decreasing order".)
$endgroup$
– Apass.Jack
3 hours ago





$begingroup$
@YuvalFilmus Yes, I agree. On the other hand, that almost-one-line proof is much simpler and accessible. (the "increasing order" in my last message should be "decreasing order".)
$endgroup$
– Apass.Jack
3 hours ago











ChenyiShiwen is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









draft saved

draft discarded


















ChenyiShiwen is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












ChenyiShiwen is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.











ChenyiShiwen is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.














Thanks for contributing an answer to Computer Science Stack Exchange!


  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

But avoid …


  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fcs.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f105836%2flanguage-involving-irrational-number-is-not-a-cfl%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown





















































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown

































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown







Popular posts from this blog

Which organization defines CJK Unified Ideographs? The Next CEO of Stack OverflowCharacters which have several different shapesHow useful are the kanji in reading Chinese?Can Chinese readers scan large amounts of text faster/more accurately than their alphabet-using counterparts?丼: why is “well” also “bowl of food”?What Does Unicode 8.0 Mean For Chinese?How are blanks indicated for placeholders in Chinese (like ???)Is there a dictionary of standard character variants?How to display CJK Extension F?How is it decided as to which character is used on the tech terminology?How does 子 come to mean 'midnight'?

When We Were Young (canção de Adele) Índice Antecedentes e lançamento | Faixas e formatos | Performances e covers | Desempenho nas tabelas musicais | Créditos | Histórico de lançamento | Referências Menu de navegação«Best albums of 2015»«Adele - When We Were Young (Radio Date: 22-01-2016)»«When We Were Young - Single by Adele»«Adele: Inside Her Private Life and Triumphant Return»«adele interview: world exclusive first interview in three years»«Tobias Jesso Jr: since Adele tweeted his song, he's even bigger than his dad»«Adele interviews Tobias Jesso Jr: 'I think that a couple of the ideas we had could be rap songs'»«Adele on Her Return: 'I Was So Frightened That No One Cared'»«Tobias Jesso Jr. on working with Adele: 'I was as nervous as shit'»«How Ariel Rechtshaid Pushed Adele To Her Limit»«Adele Previews 'When We Were Young' on '60 Minutes' Teaser, Tops Trending 140»«Adele Performs New '25' Ballad, "When We Were Young" Live: Watch»«Which '25' Song Should Be Adele's Next Single?»«Adele's 'When We Were Young' Confirmed As Second Single From '25'»«Adele's new single artwork for 'When We Were Young' is perfectly adorable»«Adele at the BBC review: honest, funny and spectacular – Celebrity News News»«'Saturday Night Live': Adele Sings 'Hello' and 'When We Were Young'»«'Adele: Live in New York City' NBC Special – Set List Revealed!»«Adele Closes Out the 2016 Brit Awards With 'When We Were Young'»«What Is The Adele Live Tour Set List? There's No Way She'd Leave Out These 8 Songs»«See Demi Lovato's Soaring Cover of Adele's 'When We Were Young'»«'The Voice': 5 Best Moments From Week 1 Blind Auditions»«Adele – When We Were Young (Media Control Charts)»«Adele – When We Were Young (Entertainment Monitoring Africa)»«Adele – When We Were Young (ARIA Charts)»«Adele – When We Were Young (Ö3 Austria Top 40)»«Adele – When We Were Young (Ultratop 50)»«Adele – When We Were Young (Ultratop 40)»«Adele – When We Were Young (Canadian Hot 100)»«Adele – When We Were Young (Tracklisten)»«Adele – When We Were Young (The Official Charts Company)»«Adele – Hello (IFPI Slovenská Republika)»«Adele – When We Were Young (Productores de Música de España)»«Adele – When We Were Young (Billboard Hot 100)»«Adele – When We Were Young (Pop Songs)»«Adele – When We Were Young (Adult Pop Songs)»«Adele – When We Were Young (Hot Adult Contemporary Charts)»«Adele – When We Were Young (Hot Dance Club Songs)»«Adele – When We Were Young (Rock Airplay)»«Adele – When We Were Young (IFPI Finlândia)»«Adele – When We Were Young (Syndicat National de l'Éditon Phonographique)»«Adele – When We Were Young (Magyar Hanglemezkiadók Szövetsége)»«Adele – When We Were Young (Irish Recorded Music Association)»«Adele – When We Were Young (Mexico Airplay)»«Adele – When We Were Young (VG-lista)»«Adele – When We Were Young (NZ Top 40 Singles)»«Adele – When We Were Young (MegaCharts)»«Adele – When We Were Young (Związek Producentów Audio Video)»«Adele – When We Were Young (Portugal Digital Songs)»«Adele – When We Were Young (UK Indie Singles Chart)»«Adele – When We Were Young (UK Singles Chart)»«Adele – When We Were Young (Sverigetopplistan)»«Adele – When We Were Young (Schweizer Hitparade)»«Adele – When We Were Young (Portugal Digital Songs)»«Music Canada – Gold/Platinum – When We Were Young»«NZ Top 40 Singles Chart»«Certified Awards»e

Shenzhen Football Club Índice Elenco atual | Títulos | Referências Ligações externas | Menu de navegaçãoGooglenotíciaslivrosacadêmicoeditar«"Elenco"»Site oficialexpandindo-oeee