Could a US political party gain complete control over the government by removing checks & balances?Why don't politicians decide to pass laws that make themselves really rich?Why would a liberal be nervous under a conservative majority House/Senate/President, when a Senate vote for cloture requires 60 votes?Are there any procedural advantages to indefinitely delaying or canceling a vote on a bill?Does the US Senate still have the option to pass some form of healthcare bill through the budget reconciliation, during this fiscal year?If one party controls the house and 2/3 of the senate, what's to stop them taking the presidency?Trump's recent siding with the democrats on 3 months debt extension - trying to understand a few thingsHow can a Senate bill bypass committee and directly go to a vote?What power, if any, does the SCOTUS Chief Justice have to hamper or reject an appointment they dislike?Why is the Senate leader allowed to decide which bills to vote on?Can the Supreme Court overturn an impeachment?
Pronouncing Dictionary.com's W.O.D "vade mecum" in English
Email Account under attack (really) - anything I can do?
Extreme, but not acceptable situation and I can't start the work tomorrow morning
Should I join office cleaning event for free?
Possibly bubble sort algorithm
Are tax years 2016 & 2017 back taxes deductible for tax year 2018?
How is this relation reflexive?
How old can references or sources in a thesis be?
whey we use polarized capacitor?
Is there a minimum number of transactions in a block?
Why are 150k or 200k jobs considered good when there are 300k+ births a month?
Is Social Media Science Fiction?
The magic money tree problem
Infinite past with a beginning?
The use of multiple foreign keys on same column in SQL Server
I see my dog run
Chess with symmetric move-square
How can the DM most effectively choose 1 out of an odd number of players to be targeted by an attack or effect?
Do airline pilots ever risk not hearing communication directed to them specifically, from traffic controllers?
How is it possible to have an ability score that is less than 3?
Why is this code 6.5x slower with optimizations enabled?
Why CLRS example on residual networks does not follows its formula?
How much RAM could one put in a typical 80386 setup?
What is the command to reset a PC without deleting any files
Could a US political party gain complete control over the government by removing checks & balances?
Why don't politicians decide to pass laws that make themselves really rich?Why would a liberal be nervous under a conservative majority House/Senate/President, when a Senate vote for cloture requires 60 votes?Are there any procedural advantages to indefinitely delaying or canceling a vote on a bill?Does the US Senate still have the option to pass some form of healthcare bill through the budget reconciliation, during this fiscal year?If one party controls the house and 2/3 of the senate, what's to stop them taking the presidency?Trump's recent siding with the democrats on 3 months debt extension - trying to understand a few thingsHow can a Senate bill bypass committee and directly go to a vote?What power, if any, does the SCOTUS Chief Justice have to hamper or reject an appointment they dislike?Why is the Senate leader allowed to decide which bills to vote on?Can the Supreme Court overturn an impeachment?
I was talking to a friend some time ago about American politics, political parties, etc. During this conversation, I thought of something:
- If a single party controlled both the house and senate, they could always pass a joint resolution
- If the president also belonged to said party, the bills would never get vetoed
- The president couldn't be impeached, since the house and senate are under control of the party
- Because of this, the party could make the supreme court judges "disappear" and appoint new ones. Despite suspicions, he/she couldn't be impeached
- The party can then pass any laws they like, pardon anyone they want (meaning they can do anything illegal and get away with it), and even pass constitutional amendments to extend their reign without the supreme court stopping them.
I'm absolutely certain I've overlooked something that would make this impossible, and people have said so, yet never been able to find a reason. Is this possible, and if not, what stops it from happening?
united-states parties
New contributor
add a comment |
I was talking to a friend some time ago about American politics, political parties, etc. During this conversation, I thought of something:
- If a single party controlled both the house and senate, they could always pass a joint resolution
- If the president also belonged to said party, the bills would never get vetoed
- The president couldn't be impeached, since the house and senate are under control of the party
- Because of this, the party could make the supreme court judges "disappear" and appoint new ones. Despite suspicions, he/she couldn't be impeached
- The party can then pass any laws they like, pardon anyone they want (meaning they can do anything illegal and get away with it), and even pass constitutional amendments to extend their reign without the supreme court stopping them.
I'm absolutely certain I've overlooked something that would make this impossible, and people have said so, yet never been able to find a reason. Is this possible, and if not, what stops it from happening?
united-states parties
New contributor
3
Making a constitutional amendment also also requires the agreement of three quarters of the states. Unless enough states' legislatures (or possibly state ratifying conventions) are also of the same party (or in agreement with it), changing the constitution could be tough.
– Steve Melnikoff
3 hours ago
2
This question has attracted two downvotes and a vote to close, apparently without any explanatory comment. Yet the question goes to the heart of the US constitution and would be a perfect opportunity to explain how and why -- and to what extent -- the constitution addresses this issue. The question deserves an answer and the Redwolf Programs deserves to know what people's reservations about the question are, to have an opportunity to address them.
– phoog
2 hours ago
@SteveMelnikoff Might want to post an answer, that's a pretty good point.
– Redwolf Programs
46 mins ago
add a comment |
I was talking to a friend some time ago about American politics, political parties, etc. During this conversation, I thought of something:
- If a single party controlled both the house and senate, they could always pass a joint resolution
- If the president also belonged to said party, the bills would never get vetoed
- The president couldn't be impeached, since the house and senate are under control of the party
- Because of this, the party could make the supreme court judges "disappear" and appoint new ones. Despite suspicions, he/she couldn't be impeached
- The party can then pass any laws they like, pardon anyone they want (meaning they can do anything illegal and get away with it), and even pass constitutional amendments to extend their reign without the supreme court stopping them.
I'm absolutely certain I've overlooked something that would make this impossible, and people have said so, yet never been able to find a reason. Is this possible, and if not, what stops it from happening?
united-states parties
New contributor
I was talking to a friend some time ago about American politics, political parties, etc. During this conversation, I thought of something:
- If a single party controlled both the house and senate, they could always pass a joint resolution
- If the president also belonged to said party, the bills would never get vetoed
- The president couldn't be impeached, since the house and senate are under control of the party
- Because of this, the party could make the supreme court judges "disappear" and appoint new ones. Despite suspicions, he/she couldn't be impeached
- The party can then pass any laws they like, pardon anyone they want (meaning they can do anything illegal and get away with it), and even pass constitutional amendments to extend their reign without the supreme court stopping them.
I'm absolutely certain I've overlooked something that would make this impossible, and people have said so, yet never been able to find a reason. Is this possible, and if not, what stops it from happening?
united-states parties
united-states parties
New contributor
New contributor
New contributor
asked 3 hours ago
Redwolf ProgramsRedwolf Programs
1273
1273
New contributor
New contributor
3
Making a constitutional amendment also also requires the agreement of three quarters of the states. Unless enough states' legislatures (or possibly state ratifying conventions) are also of the same party (or in agreement with it), changing the constitution could be tough.
– Steve Melnikoff
3 hours ago
2
This question has attracted two downvotes and a vote to close, apparently without any explanatory comment. Yet the question goes to the heart of the US constitution and would be a perfect opportunity to explain how and why -- and to what extent -- the constitution addresses this issue. The question deserves an answer and the Redwolf Programs deserves to know what people's reservations about the question are, to have an opportunity to address them.
– phoog
2 hours ago
@SteveMelnikoff Might want to post an answer, that's a pretty good point.
– Redwolf Programs
46 mins ago
add a comment |
3
Making a constitutional amendment also also requires the agreement of three quarters of the states. Unless enough states' legislatures (or possibly state ratifying conventions) are also of the same party (or in agreement with it), changing the constitution could be tough.
– Steve Melnikoff
3 hours ago
2
This question has attracted two downvotes and a vote to close, apparently without any explanatory comment. Yet the question goes to the heart of the US constitution and would be a perfect opportunity to explain how and why -- and to what extent -- the constitution addresses this issue. The question deserves an answer and the Redwolf Programs deserves to know what people's reservations about the question are, to have an opportunity to address them.
– phoog
2 hours ago
@SteveMelnikoff Might want to post an answer, that's a pretty good point.
– Redwolf Programs
46 mins ago
3
3
Making a constitutional amendment also also requires the agreement of three quarters of the states. Unless enough states' legislatures (or possibly state ratifying conventions) are also of the same party (or in agreement with it), changing the constitution could be tough.
– Steve Melnikoff
3 hours ago
Making a constitutional amendment also also requires the agreement of three quarters of the states. Unless enough states' legislatures (or possibly state ratifying conventions) are also of the same party (or in agreement with it), changing the constitution could be tough.
– Steve Melnikoff
3 hours ago
2
2
This question has attracted two downvotes and a vote to close, apparently without any explanatory comment. Yet the question goes to the heart of the US constitution and would be a perfect opportunity to explain how and why -- and to what extent -- the constitution addresses this issue. The question deserves an answer and the Redwolf Programs deserves to know what people's reservations about the question are, to have an opportunity to address them.
– phoog
2 hours ago
This question has attracted two downvotes and a vote to close, apparently without any explanatory comment. Yet the question goes to the heart of the US constitution and would be a perfect opportunity to explain how and why -- and to what extent -- the constitution addresses this issue. The question deserves an answer and the Redwolf Programs deserves to know what people's reservations about the question are, to have an opportunity to address them.
– phoog
2 hours ago
@SteveMelnikoff Might want to post an answer, that's a pretty good point.
– Redwolf Programs
46 mins ago
@SteveMelnikoff Might want to post an answer, that's a pretty good point.
– Redwolf Programs
46 mins ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
A couple things are worth considering in this scenario.
First of all, this scenario assumes that some party can manage to convince an overwhelming majority of the populace, and the states, to vote for it. That's quite a tall order already. Granted, extremely one-sided senatorial elections have happened. For example, in the 1936 elections, Democrats controlled 74 seats, and Republicans controlled 17. The House of Representative elections was similarly one-sided. That's more than the needed 2/3 majority to approve a constitutional amendment. That being said, those were very different times. The election was at the same time as the presidential elections, and essentially became an election about the New Deal. In the context of the Great Depression, it's not too surprising that the vote was this lopsided. Some pretty cataclysmic events would have to occur to get such one-sided elections again. For context, in the 2016 Senate elections, Democrats won 46 seats, and Republicans won 52. In the House elections, Republicans won 241 seats, and Democrats won 194. The point is, the votes are extremely close right now. We are no where near the 2/3 mark.
Second, 3/4 of the states need to approve Constitutional amendments (such as one needed to change the size of the Supreme Court). That's a lot of states. For either party, there's a dedicated core of states that will never "fall" to the opposing party. Here's a map of "Red" and "Blue" states:
You'll notice that while Republicans control many rural states, it's still fairly evenly matched. As I mentioned previously, it would take some pretty cataclysmic events to cause a change drastic enough to give one side a 3/4 majority. A sufficiently serious natural disaster or terrorist attack might do it, but I'm fairly doubtful that even in that case you'd see large enough changes.
Third, you have to consider what population you're talking about. Because of a combination of factors, Americans have had a somewhat unique fixation on freedom, and a particularly potent loathing towards surrendering rights to the government for any reason. There are many who claim that even current government policies are tyrannical, and that's without any party attempting to become tyrants. While it's certainly true that private citizens aren't a great army, there's a lot of them. America has a very high amount of weapons per capita, and a large portion of the population own weapons. Granted, many would not have the initiative to rise up against a government. I suspect, however, that enough would to cause serious damage. After all, the war in Vietnam should be a lesson in how effective untrained civilians can be.
To sum things up, I think that it's essentially impossible for this to happen politically. If it indeed does occur, I expect that this regime would be an extremely unstable one. They would have to deal with incessant civilian insurgencies, and would have to find a way to govern a population which is armed and ideologically opposed to its rulers. On the other hand, "it couldn't happen here" were the last words of very many people throughout history. It's certainly an interesting topic to think about.
1
I strongly object to the "will never fall" line. Parties evolve over time, and their coalitions change with that. There were extremely lopsided results in 1980, 1984, and 1988, and the 1976 map looks nothing like the modern one. Democrats won most of the South (including Texas) and Republicans won the entire west of the country (including California). Sure, that was 40 years ago, but what do you expect the map to look like in another 40 years? That said, I think the third part of this answer is quite good.
– Bobson
1 hour ago
You say "untrained civilians," but the US has a lot of combat veterans and a significant percentage privately own weapons. If even a small percentage of them decide to become insurgents they'll train all the other insurgents. It may not be to the same extent that the regular army gets, but they have the advantage of only needing to be trained to defend their home turf.
– IllusiveBrian
37 mins ago
Also, I think there's one more thing the answer leaves out - if the government were plainly corrupt and attempted to use the military and intelligence agencies to exert their rule, they would have mass desertions on their hands, and even worse a lot of insider threats.
– IllusiveBrian
31 mins ago
When republican institutions are subverted, the majority of the population usually supports it or at least silently accepts it. A large number of privately owned guns would simply mean more guns to use against those who disagree.
– Jouni Sirén
19 mins ago
add a comment |
Institutions and constitutional arrangements are important as they provide a buffer against temporary excesses, but the ultimate check is civil society, really. Otherwise look at Hungary, Turkey, etc. No amount of paper institutions is going to prevent a slide into something like that. Unless enough people say no.
There have been a lot of papers on instability in democracies and (temporary) reverts to authoritarianism. In general, a long democratic history is good predictor of non-reversals. Here's one such paper:
I present a new empirical approach to the study of democratic consolidation. I distinguish between democracies that survive because
they are consolidated and those democracies that are not consolidated but survive because of
some favorable circumstances. As a result, I can identify the determinants of two related yet
distinct processes: the likelihood that a democracy consolidates, and the timing of
authoritarian reversals in democracies that are not consolidated. I find that the level of
economic development, type of democratic executive, and type of authoritarian past determine
whether a democracy consolidates, but have no effect on the timing of reversals in democracies
that are not consolidated. That risk is only associated with economic recessions.
As an aside: I think the US Supreme Court can still be padded, no need to kill anyone.
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "475"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Redwolf Programs is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fpolitics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f40334%2fcould-a-us-political-party-gain-complete-control-over-the-government-by-removing%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
A couple things are worth considering in this scenario.
First of all, this scenario assumes that some party can manage to convince an overwhelming majority of the populace, and the states, to vote for it. That's quite a tall order already. Granted, extremely one-sided senatorial elections have happened. For example, in the 1936 elections, Democrats controlled 74 seats, and Republicans controlled 17. The House of Representative elections was similarly one-sided. That's more than the needed 2/3 majority to approve a constitutional amendment. That being said, those were very different times. The election was at the same time as the presidential elections, and essentially became an election about the New Deal. In the context of the Great Depression, it's not too surprising that the vote was this lopsided. Some pretty cataclysmic events would have to occur to get such one-sided elections again. For context, in the 2016 Senate elections, Democrats won 46 seats, and Republicans won 52. In the House elections, Republicans won 241 seats, and Democrats won 194. The point is, the votes are extremely close right now. We are no where near the 2/3 mark.
Second, 3/4 of the states need to approve Constitutional amendments (such as one needed to change the size of the Supreme Court). That's a lot of states. For either party, there's a dedicated core of states that will never "fall" to the opposing party. Here's a map of "Red" and "Blue" states:
You'll notice that while Republicans control many rural states, it's still fairly evenly matched. As I mentioned previously, it would take some pretty cataclysmic events to cause a change drastic enough to give one side a 3/4 majority. A sufficiently serious natural disaster or terrorist attack might do it, but I'm fairly doubtful that even in that case you'd see large enough changes.
Third, you have to consider what population you're talking about. Because of a combination of factors, Americans have had a somewhat unique fixation on freedom, and a particularly potent loathing towards surrendering rights to the government for any reason. There are many who claim that even current government policies are tyrannical, and that's without any party attempting to become tyrants. While it's certainly true that private citizens aren't a great army, there's a lot of them. America has a very high amount of weapons per capita, and a large portion of the population own weapons. Granted, many would not have the initiative to rise up against a government. I suspect, however, that enough would to cause serious damage. After all, the war in Vietnam should be a lesson in how effective untrained civilians can be.
To sum things up, I think that it's essentially impossible for this to happen politically. If it indeed does occur, I expect that this regime would be an extremely unstable one. They would have to deal with incessant civilian insurgencies, and would have to find a way to govern a population which is armed and ideologically opposed to its rulers. On the other hand, "it couldn't happen here" were the last words of very many people throughout history. It's certainly an interesting topic to think about.
1
I strongly object to the "will never fall" line. Parties evolve over time, and their coalitions change with that. There were extremely lopsided results in 1980, 1984, and 1988, and the 1976 map looks nothing like the modern one. Democrats won most of the South (including Texas) and Republicans won the entire west of the country (including California). Sure, that was 40 years ago, but what do you expect the map to look like in another 40 years? That said, I think the third part of this answer is quite good.
– Bobson
1 hour ago
You say "untrained civilians," but the US has a lot of combat veterans and a significant percentage privately own weapons. If even a small percentage of them decide to become insurgents they'll train all the other insurgents. It may not be to the same extent that the regular army gets, but they have the advantage of only needing to be trained to defend their home turf.
– IllusiveBrian
37 mins ago
Also, I think there's one more thing the answer leaves out - if the government were plainly corrupt and attempted to use the military and intelligence agencies to exert their rule, they would have mass desertions on their hands, and even worse a lot of insider threats.
– IllusiveBrian
31 mins ago
When republican institutions are subverted, the majority of the population usually supports it or at least silently accepts it. A large number of privately owned guns would simply mean more guns to use against those who disagree.
– Jouni Sirén
19 mins ago
add a comment |
A couple things are worth considering in this scenario.
First of all, this scenario assumes that some party can manage to convince an overwhelming majority of the populace, and the states, to vote for it. That's quite a tall order already. Granted, extremely one-sided senatorial elections have happened. For example, in the 1936 elections, Democrats controlled 74 seats, and Republicans controlled 17. The House of Representative elections was similarly one-sided. That's more than the needed 2/3 majority to approve a constitutional amendment. That being said, those were very different times. The election was at the same time as the presidential elections, and essentially became an election about the New Deal. In the context of the Great Depression, it's not too surprising that the vote was this lopsided. Some pretty cataclysmic events would have to occur to get such one-sided elections again. For context, in the 2016 Senate elections, Democrats won 46 seats, and Republicans won 52. In the House elections, Republicans won 241 seats, and Democrats won 194. The point is, the votes are extremely close right now. We are no where near the 2/3 mark.
Second, 3/4 of the states need to approve Constitutional amendments (such as one needed to change the size of the Supreme Court). That's a lot of states. For either party, there's a dedicated core of states that will never "fall" to the opposing party. Here's a map of "Red" and "Blue" states:
You'll notice that while Republicans control many rural states, it's still fairly evenly matched. As I mentioned previously, it would take some pretty cataclysmic events to cause a change drastic enough to give one side a 3/4 majority. A sufficiently serious natural disaster or terrorist attack might do it, but I'm fairly doubtful that even in that case you'd see large enough changes.
Third, you have to consider what population you're talking about. Because of a combination of factors, Americans have had a somewhat unique fixation on freedom, and a particularly potent loathing towards surrendering rights to the government for any reason. There are many who claim that even current government policies are tyrannical, and that's without any party attempting to become tyrants. While it's certainly true that private citizens aren't a great army, there's a lot of them. America has a very high amount of weapons per capita, and a large portion of the population own weapons. Granted, many would not have the initiative to rise up against a government. I suspect, however, that enough would to cause serious damage. After all, the war in Vietnam should be a lesson in how effective untrained civilians can be.
To sum things up, I think that it's essentially impossible for this to happen politically. If it indeed does occur, I expect that this regime would be an extremely unstable one. They would have to deal with incessant civilian insurgencies, and would have to find a way to govern a population which is armed and ideologically opposed to its rulers. On the other hand, "it couldn't happen here" were the last words of very many people throughout history. It's certainly an interesting topic to think about.
1
I strongly object to the "will never fall" line. Parties evolve over time, and their coalitions change with that. There were extremely lopsided results in 1980, 1984, and 1988, and the 1976 map looks nothing like the modern one. Democrats won most of the South (including Texas) and Republicans won the entire west of the country (including California). Sure, that was 40 years ago, but what do you expect the map to look like in another 40 years? That said, I think the third part of this answer is quite good.
– Bobson
1 hour ago
You say "untrained civilians," but the US has a lot of combat veterans and a significant percentage privately own weapons. If even a small percentage of them decide to become insurgents they'll train all the other insurgents. It may not be to the same extent that the regular army gets, but they have the advantage of only needing to be trained to defend their home turf.
– IllusiveBrian
37 mins ago
Also, I think there's one more thing the answer leaves out - if the government were plainly corrupt and attempted to use the military and intelligence agencies to exert their rule, they would have mass desertions on their hands, and even worse a lot of insider threats.
– IllusiveBrian
31 mins ago
When republican institutions are subverted, the majority of the population usually supports it or at least silently accepts it. A large number of privately owned guns would simply mean more guns to use against those who disagree.
– Jouni Sirén
19 mins ago
add a comment |
A couple things are worth considering in this scenario.
First of all, this scenario assumes that some party can manage to convince an overwhelming majority of the populace, and the states, to vote for it. That's quite a tall order already. Granted, extremely one-sided senatorial elections have happened. For example, in the 1936 elections, Democrats controlled 74 seats, and Republicans controlled 17. The House of Representative elections was similarly one-sided. That's more than the needed 2/3 majority to approve a constitutional amendment. That being said, those were very different times. The election was at the same time as the presidential elections, and essentially became an election about the New Deal. In the context of the Great Depression, it's not too surprising that the vote was this lopsided. Some pretty cataclysmic events would have to occur to get such one-sided elections again. For context, in the 2016 Senate elections, Democrats won 46 seats, and Republicans won 52. In the House elections, Republicans won 241 seats, and Democrats won 194. The point is, the votes are extremely close right now. We are no where near the 2/3 mark.
Second, 3/4 of the states need to approve Constitutional amendments (such as one needed to change the size of the Supreme Court). That's a lot of states. For either party, there's a dedicated core of states that will never "fall" to the opposing party. Here's a map of "Red" and "Blue" states:
You'll notice that while Republicans control many rural states, it's still fairly evenly matched. As I mentioned previously, it would take some pretty cataclysmic events to cause a change drastic enough to give one side a 3/4 majority. A sufficiently serious natural disaster or terrorist attack might do it, but I'm fairly doubtful that even in that case you'd see large enough changes.
Third, you have to consider what population you're talking about. Because of a combination of factors, Americans have had a somewhat unique fixation on freedom, and a particularly potent loathing towards surrendering rights to the government for any reason. There are many who claim that even current government policies are tyrannical, and that's without any party attempting to become tyrants. While it's certainly true that private citizens aren't a great army, there's a lot of them. America has a very high amount of weapons per capita, and a large portion of the population own weapons. Granted, many would not have the initiative to rise up against a government. I suspect, however, that enough would to cause serious damage. After all, the war in Vietnam should be a lesson in how effective untrained civilians can be.
To sum things up, I think that it's essentially impossible for this to happen politically. If it indeed does occur, I expect that this regime would be an extremely unstable one. They would have to deal with incessant civilian insurgencies, and would have to find a way to govern a population which is armed and ideologically opposed to its rulers. On the other hand, "it couldn't happen here" were the last words of very many people throughout history. It's certainly an interesting topic to think about.
A couple things are worth considering in this scenario.
First of all, this scenario assumes that some party can manage to convince an overwhelming majority of the populace, and the states, to vote for it. That's quite a tall order already. Granted, extremely one-sided senatorial elections have happened. For example, in the 1936 elections, Democrats controlled 74 seats, and Republicans controlled 17. The House of Representative elections was similarly one-sided. That's more than the needed 2/3 majority to approve a constitutional amendment. That being said, those were very different times. The election was at the same time as the presidential elections, and essentially became an election about the New Deal. In the context of the Great Depression, it's not too surprising that the vote was this lopsided. Some pretty cataclysmic events would have to occur to get such one-sided elections again. For context, in the 2016 Senate elections, Democrats won 46 seats, and Republicans won 52. In the House elections, Republicans won 241 seats, and Democrats won 194. The point is, the votes are extremely close right now. We are no where near the 2/3 mark.
Second, 3/4 of the states need to approve Constitutional amendments (such as one needed to change the size of the Supreme Court). That's a lot of states. For either party, there's a dedicated core of states that will never "fall" to the opposing party. Here's a map of "Red" and "Blue" states:
You'll notice that while Republicans control many rural states, it's still fairly evenly matched. As I mentioned previously, it would take some pretty cataclysmic events to cause a change drastic enough to give one side a 3/4 majority. A sufficiently serious natural disaster or terrorist attack might do it, but I'm fairly doubtful that even in that case you'd see large enough changes.
Third, you have to consider what population you're talking about. Because of a combination of factors, Americans have had a somewhat unique fixation on freedom, and a particularly potent loathing towards surrendering rights to the government for any reason. There are many who claim that even current government policies are tyrannical, and that's without any party attempting to become tyrants. While it's certainly true that private citizens aren't a great army, there's a lot of them. America has a very high amount of weapons per capita, and a large portion of the population own weapons. Granted, many would not have the initiative to rise up against a government. I suspect, however, that enough would to cause serious damage. After all, the war in Vietnam should be a lesson in how effective untrained civilians can be.
To sum things up, I think that it's essentially impossible for this to happen politically. If it indeed does occur, I expect that this regime would be an extremely unstable one. They would have to deal with incessant civilian insurgencies, and would have to find a way to govern a population which is armed and ideologically opposed to its rulers. On the other hand, "it couldn't happen here" were the last words of very many people throughout history. It's certainly an interesting topic to think about.
answered 2 hours ago
DevilApple227DevilApple227
1534
1534
1
I strongly object to the "will never fall" line. Parties evolve over time, and their coalitions change with that. There were extremely lopsided results in 1980, 1984, and 1988, and the 1976 map looks nothing like the modern one. Democrats won most of the South (including Texas) and Republicans won the entire west of the country (including California). Sure, that was 40 years ago, but what do you expect the map to look like in another 40 years? That said, I think the third part of this answer is quite good.
– Bobson
1 hour ago
You say "untrained civilians," but the US has a lot of combat veterans and a significant percentage privately own weapons. If even a small percentage of them decide to become insurgents they'll train all the other insurgents. It may not be to the same extent that the regular army gets, but they have the advantage of only needing to be trained to defend their home turf.
– IllusiveBrian
37 mins ago
Also, I think there's one more thing the answer leaves out - if the government were plainly corrupt and attempted to use the military and intelligence agencies to exert their rule, they would have mass desertions on their hands, and even worse a lot of insider threats.
– IllusiveBrian
31 mins ago
When republican institutions are subverted, the majority of the population usually supports it or at least silently accepts it. A large number of privately owned guns would simply mean more guns to use against those who disagree.
– Jouni Sirén
19 mins ago
add a comment |
1
I strongly object to the "will never fall" line. Parties evolve over time, and their coalitions change with that. There were extremely lopsided results in 1980, 1984, and 1988, and the 1976 map looks nothing like the modern one. Democrats won most of the South (including Texas) and Republicans won the entire west of the country (including California). Sure, that was 40 years ago, but what do you expect the map to look like in another 40 years? That said, I think the third part of this answer is quite good.
– Bobson
1 hour ago
You say "untrained civilians," but the US has a lot of combat veterans and a significant percentage privately own weapons. If even a small percentage of them decide to become insurgents they'll train all the other insurgents. It may not be to the same extent that the regular army gets, but they have the advantage of only needing to be trained to defend their home turf.
– IllusiveBrian
37 mins ago
Also, I think there's one more thing the answer leaves out - if the government were plainly corrupt and attempted to use the military and intelligence agencies to exert their rule, they would have mass desertions on their hands, and even worse a lot of insider threats.
– IllusiveBrian
31 mins ago
When republican institutions are subverted, the majority of the population usually supports it or at least silently accepts it. A large number of privately owned guns would simply mean more guns to use against those who disagree.
– Jouni Sirén
19 mins ago
1
1
I strongly object to the "will never fall" line. Parties evolve over time, and their coalitions change with that. There were extremely lopsided results in 1980, 1984, and 1988, and the 1976 map looks nothing like the modern one. Democrats won most of the South (including Texas) and Republicans won the entire west of the country (including California). Sure, that was 40 years ago, but what do you expect the map to look like in another 40 years? That said, I think the third part of this answer is quite good.
– Bobson
1 hour ago
I strongly object to the "will never fall" line. Parties evolve over time, and their coalitions change with that. There were extremely lopsided results in 1980, 1984, and 1988, and the 1976 map looks nothing like the modern one. Democrats won most of the South (including Texas) and Republicans won the entire west of the country (including California). Sure, that was 40 years ago, but what do you expect the map to look like in another 40 years? That said, I think the third part of this answer is quite good.
– Bobson
1 hour ago
You say "untrained civilians," but the US has a lot of combat veterans and a significant percentage privately own weapons. If even a small percentage of them decide to become insurgents they'll train all the other insurgents. It may not be to the same extent that the regular army gets, but they have the advantage of only needing to be trained to defend their home turf.
– IllusiveBrian
37 mins ago
You say "untrained civilians," but the US has a lot of combat veterans and a significant percentage privately own weapons. If even a small percentage of them decide to become insurgents they'll train all the other insurgents. It may not be to the same extent that the regular army gets, but they have the advantage of only needing to be trained to defend their home turf.
– IllusiveBrian
37 mins ago
Also, I think there's one more thing the answer leaves out - if the government were plainly corrupt and attempted to use the military and intelligence agencies to exert their rule, they would have mass desertions on their hands, and even worse a lot of insider threats.
– IllusiveBrian
31 mins ago
Also, I think there's one more thing the answer leaves out - if the government were plainly corrupt and attempted to use the military and intelligence agencies to exert their rule, they would have mass desertions on their hands, and even worse a lot of insider threats.
– IllusiveBrian
31 mins ago
When republican institutions are subverted, the majority of the population usually supports it or at least silently accepts it. A large number of privately owned guns would simply mean more guns to use against those who disagree.
– Jouni Sirén
19 mins ago
When republican institutions are subverted, the majority of the population usually supports it or at least silently accepts it. A large number of privately owned guns would simply mean more guns to use against those who disagree.
– Jouni Sirén
19 mins ago
add a comment |
Institutions and constitutional arrangements are important as they provide a buffer against temporary excesses, but the ultimate check is civil society, really. Otherwise look at Hungary, Turkey, etc. No amount of paper institutions is going to prevent a slide into something like that. Unless enough people say no.
There have been a lot of papers on instability in democracies and (temporary) reverts to authoritarianism. In general, a long democratic history is good predictor of non-reversals. Here's one such paper:
I present a new empirical approach to the study of democratic consolidation. I distinguish between democracies that survive because
they are consolidated and those democracies that are not consolidated but survive because of
some favorable circumstances. As a result, I can identify the determinants of two related yet
distinct processes: the likelihood that a democracy consolidates, and the timing of
authoritarian reversals in democracies that are not consolidated. I find that the level of
economic development, type of democratic executive, and type of authoritarian past determine
whether a democracy consolidates, but have no effect on the timing of reversals in democracies
that are not consolidated. That risk is only associated with economic recessions.
As an aside: I think the US Supreme Court can still be padded, no need to kill anyone.
add a comment |
Institutions and constitutional arrangements are important as they provide a buffer against temporary excesses, but the ultimate check is civil society, really. Otherwise look at Hungary, Turkey, etc. No amount of paper institutions is going to prevent a slide into something like that. Unless enough people say no.
There have been a lot of papers on instability in democracies and (temporary) reverts to authoritarianism. In general, a long democratic history is good predictor of non-reversals. Here's one such paper:
I present a new empirical approach to the study of democratic consolidation. I distinguish between democracies that survive because
they are consolidated and those democracies that are not consolidated but survive because of
some favorable circumstances. As a result, I can identify the determinants of two related yet
distinct processes: the likelihood that a democracy consolidates, and the timing of
authoritarian reversals in democracies that are not consolidated. I find that the level of
economic development, type of democratic executive, and type of authoritarian past determine
whether a democracy consolidates, but have no effect on the timing of reversals in democracies
that are not consolidated. That risk is only associated with economic recessions.
As an aside: I think the US Supreme Court can still be padded, no need to kill anyone.
add a comment |
Institutions and constitutional arrangements are important as they provide a buffer against temporary excesses, but the ultimate check is civil society, really. Otherwise look at Hungary, Turkey, etc. No amount of paper institutions is going to prevent a slide into something like that. Unless enough people say no.
There have been a lot of papers on instability in democracies and (temporary) reverts to authoritarianism. In general, a long democratic history is good predictor of non-reversals. Here's one such paper:
I present a new empirical approach to the study of democratic consolidation. I distinguish between democracies that survive because
they are consolidated and those democracies that are not consolidated but survive because of
some favorable circumstances. As a result, I can identify the determinants of two related yet
distinct processes: the likelihood that a democracy consolidates, and the timing of
authoritarian reversals in democracies that are not consolidated. I find that the level of
economic development, type of democratic executive, and type of authoritarian past determine
whether a democracy consolidates, but have no effect on the timing of reversals in democracies
that are not consolidated. That risk is only associated with economic recessions.
As an aside: I think the US Supreme Court can still be padded, no need to kill anyone.
Institutions and constitutional arrangements are important as they provide a buffer against temporary excesses, but the ultimate check is civil society, really. Otherwise look at Hungary, Turkey, etc. No amount of paper institutions is going to prevent a slide into something like that. Unless enough people say no.
There have been a lot of papers on instability in democracies and (temporary) reverts to authoritarianism. In general, a long democratic history is good predictor of non-reversals. Here's one such paper:
I present a new empirical approach to the study of democratic consolidation. I distinguish between democracies that survive because
they are consolidated and those democracies that are not consolidated but survive because of
some favorable circumstances. As a result, I can identify the determinants of two related yet
distinct processes: the likelihood that a democracy consolidates, and the timing of
authoritarian reversals in democracies that are not consolidated. I find that the level of
economic development, type of democratic executive, and type of authoritarian past determine
whether a democracy consolidates, but have no effect on the timing of reversals in democracies
that are not consolidated. That risk is only associated with economic recessions.
As an aside: I think the US Supreme Court can still be padded, no need to kill anyone.
answered 2 hours ago
FizzFizz
13.9k23288
13.9k23288
add a comment |
add a comment |
Redwolf Programs is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Redwolf Programs is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Redwolf Programs is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Redwolf Programs is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Thanks for contributing an answer to Politics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fpolitics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f40334%2fcould-a-us-political-party-gain-complete-control-over-the-government-by-removing%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
3
Making a constitutional amendment also also requires the agreement of three quarters of the states. Unless enough states' legislatures (or possibly state ratifying conventions) are also of the same party (or in agreement with it), changing the constitution could be tough.
– Steve Melnikoff
3 hours ago
2
This question has attracted two downvotes and a vote to close, apparently without any explanatory comment. Yet the question goes to the heart of the US constitution and would be a perfect opportunity to explain how and why -- and to what extent -- the constitution addresses this issue. The question deserves an answer and the Redwolf Programs deserves to know what people's reservations about the question are, to have an opportunity to address them.
– phoog
2 hours ago
@SteveMelnikoff Might want to post an answer, that's a pretty good point.
– Redwolf Programs
46 mins ago