Can the damage from a Talisman of Pure Good (or Ultimate Evil) be non-lethal?What is “Force” Damage?What are the mechanics of attacking with a Talisman of (Pure Good / Ultimate Evil)?Can massive damage knock out rather than causing instant death?Can you knock out Animated Armor and/or Zombies?What happens when you bring a creature down to 0 HP entirely by a “Sword of Wounding”, but choose to deal nonlethal damage?Can the Death Cleric's Channel Divinity stack with the Paladin's Smite?Can I disarm and immediately grapple with Tavern Brawler?How can I make trying to knock out an opponent dangerous?How can a disarmed foe be prevented from recovering the item?Can one still deal Non-Lethal Damage if they trigger the Automatic Kill feature?What are the mechanics of attacking with a Talisman of (Pure Good / Ultimate Evil)?Can the bonus action attack from Polearm Master be used to Disarm?

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Can the damage from a Talisman of Pure Good (or Ultimate Evil) be non-lethal?

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Can the damage from a Talisman of Pure Good (or Ultimate Evil) be non-lethal?


What is “Force” Damage?What are the mechanics of attacking with a Talisman of (Pure Good / Ultimate Evil)?Can massive damage knock out rather than causing instant death?Can you knock out Animated Armor and/or Zombies?What happens when you bring a creature down to 0 HP entirely by a “Sword of Wounding”, but choose to deal nonlethal damage?Can the Death Cleric's Channel Divinity stack with the Paladin's Smite?Can I disarm and immediately grapple with Tavern Brawler?How can I make trying to knock out an opponent dangerous?How can a disarmed foe be prevented from recovering the item?Can one still deal Non-Lethal Damage if they trigger the Automatic Kill feature?What are the mechanics of attacking with a Talisman of (Pure Good / Ultimate Evil)?Can the bonus action attack from Polearm Master be used to Disarm?













6












$begingroup$


This is a direct follow-up to this other question of mine and assumes that, indeed, one may wield a Talisman of Pure Good (or a Talisman of Ultimate Evil) as an improvised weapon and apply both the regular melee damage from an improvised weapon plus the Talisman's radiant/necrotic damage if the creature is not of the right alignment.



The Player's Handbook states the following about Knocking a Creature Out:




Sometimes an attacker wants to incapacitate a foe, rather than deal a killing blow. When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. The creature falls unconscious and is stable.




Can one decide to strike a maligned foe non-lethally (and therefore knock them out instead of killing them) with a Talisman of Pure Good (or Ultimate Evil)?



My hesitation relies on the fact that the radiant/necrotic damage from the Talisman does not directly come from the melee attack, but rather from the item. I think it might still work, but I am unsure.










share|improve this question











$endgroup$
















    6












    $begingroup$


    This is a direct follow-up to this other question of mine and assumes that, indeed, one may wield a Talisman of Pure Good (or a Talisman of Ultimate Evil) as an improvised weapon and apply both the regular melee damage from an improvised weapon plus the Talisman's radiant/necrotic damage if the creature is not of the right alignment.



    The Player's Handbook states the following about Knocking a Creature Out:




    Sometimes an attacker wants to incapacitate a foe, rather than deal a killing blow. When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. The creature falls unconscious and is stable.




    Can one decide to strike a maligned foe non-lethally (and therefore knock them out instead of killing them) with a Talisman of Pure Good (or Ultimate Evil)?



    My hesitation relies on the fact that the radiant/necrotic damage from the Talisman does not directly come from the melee attack, but rather from the item. I think it might still work, but I am unsure.










    share|improve this question











    $endgroup$














      6












      6








      6





      $begingroup$


      This is a direct follow-up to this other question of mine and assumes that, indeed, one may wield a Talisman of Pure Good (or a Talisman of Ultimate Evil) as an improvised weapon and apply both the regular melee damage from an improvised weapon plus the Talisman's radiant/necrotic damage if the creature is not of the right alignment.



      The Player's Handbook states the following about Knocking a Creature Out:




      Sometimes an attacker wants to incapacitate a foe, rather than deal a killing blow. When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. The creature falls unconscious and is stable.




      Can one decide to strike a maligned foe non-lethally (and therefore knock them out instead of killing them) with a Talisman of Pure Good (or Ultimate Evil)?



      My hesitation relies on the fact that the radiant/necrotic damage from the Talisman does not directly come from the melee attack, but rather from the item. I think it might still work, but I am unsure.










      share|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      This is a direct follow-up to this other question of mine and assumes that, indeed, one may wield a Talisman of Pure Good (or a Talisman of Ultimate Evil) as an improvised weapon and apply both the regular melee damage from an improvised weapon plus the Talisman's radiant/necrotic damage if the creature is not of the right alignment.



      The Player's Handbook states the following about Knocking a Creature Out:




      Sometimes an attacker wants to incapacitate a foe, rather than deal a killing blow. When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. The creature falls unconscious and is stable.




      Can one decide to strike a maligned foe non-lethally (and therefore knock them out instead of killing them) with a Talisman of Pure Good (or Ultimate Evil)?



      My hesitation relies on the fact that the radiant/necrotic damage from the Talisman does not directly come from the melee attack, but rather from the item. I think it might still work, but I am unsure.







      dnd-5e magic-items combat improvised-weaponry






      share|improve this question















      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 18 mins ago









      V2Blast

      24.6k383155




      24.6k383155










      asked 5 hours ago









      Gael LGael L

      9,027341169




      9,027341169




















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          7












          $begingroup$

          Any melee attack can be a knock-out blow.



          You've quoted the complete rules on the matter. The type of damage is not relevant, only the source of the attack - melee or ranged. Both a melee weapon attack and a melee spell attack are melee attacks.



          Another user asked What is "Force" Damage? In that case, they were asking how to describe wounds, but I made a key point in my answer:




          Until a source of damage interacts with something with resistance, immunity, vulnerability, or some other ability that cites an interaction with a type of damage, the damage type is functionally meaningless.




          In D&D5E, you can just as easily fire-damage somebody into unconsciousness (via Flame Blade, a melee spell attack) or shock them into submission (via Shocking Grasp), as you can beat them within an inch of their life. You cannot Lightning Bolt or Fire Bolt somebody without the risk of killing them, because neither of those two spells involves a melee attack (one is a save, the other is a ranged spell attack).



          The Talisman may not be an attack at all.



          While it isn't written that way, I suspect the intention of that passage is when an unworthy character touches the talisman willingly. If you're allowing that feature to be used offensively, by pressing it against the unworthy, you're dipping into homebrew territory anyway.



          If you're allowing a character to make a melee attack with a Talisman, then yes, it would work as you describe. A melee attack is a melee attack, and by the rules can be used as a knock-out blow.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$




















            5












            $begingroup$

            No



            Your quote specifically states a "melee attack," but the damage from the Talisman occurs after (when they touch it), so it isn't an attack.






            share|improve this answer









            $endgroup$












            • $begingroup$
              You're ignoring the parameters supplied before the quote. In the context of this question, the Talisman itself is being used as a weapon and the damage does apply to the attack.
              $endgroup$
              – T.J.L.
              7 mins ago










            • $begingroup$
              @T.J.L. what I'm trying into the I say here is that the damage comes after the attack.
              $endgroup$
              – NoOneIsHere
              6 mins ago










            • $begingroup$
              And the querent is saying they have already decided that is not the case. They have decided it is part of the attack. This answer might be viable for the linked question, but here it is ignoring the explicitly provided context.
              $endgroup$
              – T.J.L.
              4 mins ago











            Your Answer





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            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

            votes








            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            7












            $begingroup$

            Any melee attack can be a knock-out blow.



            You've quoted the complete rules on the matter. The type of damage is not relevant, only the source of the attack - melee or ranged. Both a melee weapon attack and a melee spell attack are melee attacks.



            Another user asked What is "Force" Damage? In that case, they were asking how to describe wounds, but I made a key point in my answer:




            Until a source of damage interacts with something with resistance, immunity, vulnerability, or some other ability that cites an interaction with a type of damage, the damage type is functionally meaningless.




            In D&D5E, you can just as easily fire-damage somebody into unconsciousness (via Flame Blade, a melee spell attack) or shock them into submission (via Shocking Grasp), as you can beat them within an inch of their life. You cannot Lightning Bolt or Fire Bolt somebody without the risk of killing them, because neither of those two spells involves a melee attack (one is a save, the other is a ranged spell attack).



            The Talisman may not be an attack at all.



            While it isn't written that way, I suspect the intention of that passage is when an unworthy character touches the talisman willingly. If you're allowing that feature to be used offensively, by pressing it against the unworthy, you're dipping into homebrew territory anyway.



            If you're allowing a character to make a melee attack with a Talisman, then yes, it would work as you describe. A melee attack is a melee attack, and by the rules can be used as a knock-out blow.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$

















              7












              $begingroup$

              Any melee attack can be a knock-out blow.



              You've quoted the complete rules on the matter. The type of damage is not relevant, only the source of the attack - melee or ranged. Both a melee weapon attack and a melee spell attack are melee attacks.



              Another user asked What is "Force" Damage? In that case, they were asking how to describe wounds, but I made a key point in my answer:




              Until a source of damage interacts with something with resistance, immunity, vulnerability, or some other ability that cites an interaction with a type of damage, the damage type is functionally meaningless.




              In D&D5E, you can just as easily fire-damage somebody into unconsciousness (via Flame Blade, a melee spell attack) or shock them into submission (via Shocking Grasp), as you can beat them within an inch of their life. You cannot Lightning Bolt or Fire Bolt somebody without the risk of killing them, because neither of those two spells involves a melee attack (one is a save, the other is a ranged spell attack).



              The Talisman may not be an attack at all.



              While it isn't written that way, I suspect the intention of that passage is when an unworthy character touches the talisman willingly. If you're allowing that feature to be used offensively, by pressing it against the unworthy, you're dipping into homebrew territory anyway.



              If you're allowing a character to make a melee attack with a Talisman, then yes, it would work as you describe. A melee attack is a melee attack, and by the rules can be used as a knock-out blow.






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$















                7












                7








                7





                $begingroup$

                Any melee attack can be a knock-out blow.



                You've quoted the complete rules on the matter. The type of damage is not relevant, only the source of the attack - melee or ranged. Both a melee weapon attack and a melee spell attack are melee attacks.



                Another user asked What is "Force" Damage? In that case, they were asking how to describe wounds, but I made a key point in my answer:




                Until a source of damage interacts with something with resistance, immunity, vulnerability, or some other ability that cites an interaction with a type of damage, the damage type is functionally meaningless.




                In D&D5E, you can just as easily fire-damage somebody into unconsciousness (via Flame Blade, a melee spell attack) or shock them into submission (via Shocking Grasp), as you can beat them within an inch of their life. You cannot Lightning Bolt or Fire Bolt somebody without the risk of killing them, because neither of those two spells involves a melee attack (one is a save, the other is a ranged spell attack).



                The Talisman may not be an attack at all.



                While it isn't written that way, I suspect the intention of that passage is when an unworthy character touches the talisman willingly. If you're allowing that feature to be used offensively, by pressing it against the unworthy, you're dipping into homebrew territory anyway.



                If you're allowing a character to make a melee attack with a Talisman, then yes, it would work as you describe. A melee attack is a melee attack, and by the rules can be used as a knock-out blow.






                share|improve this answer











                $endgroup$



                Any melee attack can be a knock-out blow.



                You've quoted the complete rules on the matter. The type of damage is not relevant, only the source of the attack - melee or ranged. Both a melee weapon attack and a melee spell attack are melee attacks.



                Another user asked What is "Force" Damage? In that case, they were asking how to describe wounds, but I made a key point in my answer:




                Until a source of damage interacts with something with resistance, immunity, vulnerability, or some other ability that cites an interaction with a type of damage, the damage type is functionally meaningless.




                In D&D5E, you can just as easily fire-damage somebody into unconsciousness (via Flame Blade, a melee spell attack) or shock them into submission (via Shocking Grasp), as you can beat them within an inch of their life. You cannot Lightning Bolt or Fire Bolt somebody without the risk of killing them, because neither of those two spells involves a melee attack (one is a save, the other is a ranged spell attack).



                The Talisman may not be an attack at all.



                While it isn't written that way, I suspect the intention of that passage is when an unworthy character touches the talisman willingly. If you're allowing that feature to be used offensively, by pressing it against the unworthy, you're dipping into homebrew territory anyway.



                If you're allowing a character to make a melee attack with a Talisman, then yes, it would work as you describe. A melee attack is a melee attack, and by the rules can be used as a knock-out blow.







                share|improve this answer














                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer








                edited 3 hours ago

























                answered 5 hours ago









                T.J.L.T.J.L.

                33.1k5115173




                33.1k5115173























                    5












                    $begingroup$

                    No



                    Your quote specifically states a "melee attack," but the damage from the Talisman occurs after (when they touch it), so it isn't an attack.






                    share|improve this answer









                    $endgroup$












                    • $begingroup$
                      You're ignoring the parameters supplied before the quote. In the context of this question, the Talisman itself is being used as a weapon and the damage does apply to the attack.
                      $endgroup$
                      – T.J.L.
                      7 mins ago










                    • $begingroup$
                      @T.J.L. what I'm trying into the I say here is that the damage comes after the attack.
                      $endgroup$
                      – NoOneIsHere
                      6 mins ago










                    • $begingroup$
                      And the querent is saying they have already decided that is not the case. They have decided it is part of the attack. This answer might be viable for the linked question, but here it is ignoring the explicitly provided context.
                      $endgroup$
                      – T.J.L.
                      4 mins ago
















                    5












                    $begingroup$

                    No



                    Your quote specifically states a "melee attack," but the damage from the Talisman occurs after (when they touch it), so it isn't an attack.






                    share|improve this answer









                    $endgroup$












                    • $begingroup$
                      You're ignoring the parameters supplied before the quote. In the context of this question, the Talisman itself is being used as a weapon and the damage does apply to the attack.
                      $endgroup$
                      – T.J.L.
                      7 mins ago










                    • $begingroup$
                      @T.J.L. what I'm trying into the I say here is that the damage comes after the attack.
                      $endgroup$
                      – NoOneIsHere
                      6 mins ago










                    • $begingroup$
                      And the querent is saying they have already decided that is not the case. They have decided it is part of the attack. This answer might be viable for the linked question, but here it is ignoring the explicitly provided context.
                      $endgroup$
                      – T.J.L.
                      4 mins ago














                    5












                    5








                    5





                    $begingroup$

                    No



                    Your quote specifically states a "melee attack," but the damage from the Talisman occurs after (when they touch it), so it isn't an attack.






                    share|improve this answer









                    $endgroup$



                    No



                    Your quote specifically states a "melee attack," but the damage from the Talisman occurs after (when they touch it), so it isn't an attack.







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered 5 hours ago









                    NoOneIsHereNoOneIsHere

                    572416




                    572416











                    • $begingroup$
                      You're ignoring the parameters supplied before the quote. In the context of this question, the Talisman itself is being used as a weapon and the damage does apply to the attack.
                      $endgroup$
                      – T.J.L.
                      7 mins ago










                    • $begingroup$
                      @T.J.L. what I'm trying into the I say here is that the damage comes after the attack.
                      $endgroup$
                      – NoOneIsHere
                      6 mins ago










                    • $begingroup$
                      And the querent is saying they have already decided that is not the case. They have decided it is part of the attack. This answer might be viable for the linked question, but here it is ignoring the explicitly provided context.
                      $endgroup$
                      – T.J.L.
                      4 mins ago

















                    • $begingroup$
                      You're ignoring the parameters supplied before the quote. In the context of this question, the Talisman itself is being used as a weapon and the damage does apply to the attack.
                      $endgroup$
                      – T.J.L.
                      7 mins ago










                    • $begingroup$
                      @T.J.L. what I'm trying into the I say here is that the damage comes after the attack.
                      $endgroup$
                      – NoOneIsHere
                      6 mins ago










                    • $begingroup$
                      And the querent is saying they have already decided that is not the case. They have decided it is part of the attack. This answer might be viable for the linked question, but here it is ignoring the explicitly provided context.
                      $endgroup$
                      – T.J.L.
                      4 mins ago
















                    $begingroup$
                    You're ignoring the parameters supplied before the quote. In the context of this question, the Talisman itself is being used as a weapon and the damage does apply to the attack.
                    $endgroup$
                    – T.J.L.
                    7 mins ago




                    $begingroup$
                    You're ignoring the parameters supplied before the quote. In the context of this question, the Talisman itself is being used as a weapon and the damage does apply to the attack.
                    $endgroup$
                    – T.J.L.
                    7 mins ago












                    $begingroup$
                    @T.J.L. what I'm trying into the I say here is that the damage comes after the attack.
                    $endgroup$
                    – NoOneIsHere
                    6 mins ago




                    $begingroup$
                    @T.J.L. what I'm trying into the I say here is that the damage comes after the attack.
                    $endgroup$
                    – NoOneIsHere
                    6 mins ago












                    $begingroup$
                    And the querent is saying they have already decided that is not the case. They have decided it is part of the attack. This answer might be viable for the linked question, but here it is ignoring the explicitly provided context.
                    $endgroup$
                    – T.J.L.
                    4 mins ago





                    $begingroup$
                    And the querent is saying they have already decided that is not the case. They have decided it is part of the attack. This answer might be viable for the linked question, but here it is ignoring the explicitly provided context.
                    $endgroup$
                    – T.J.L.
                    4 mins ago


















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