Ex-housemate cancelling NHS appointments (United Kingdom)My friend got stabbed by her brother and can't return homeWife sent to collections 3 years after a doctor's fee was settled (Connecticut)Can you press charges if an insurance carrier refuses to stop billing you, even when you're no longer an insured?Can doctor's offices withhold test results for some length of time?What should i do when my landlord breaks an agreement, and later invokes the 60 days tenant notice in OntarioWhy was the NHS able to prevent Charlie Gard's parents from taking their child to the US?Do non-EU international speeding offences count lawfully for UK insurance declarations?Is less than 3 years a legally sufficient lifespan for a TV in the UK/EU?Redundancy with no consultationHow to get my Hospital bill settled down for a service that I didn't receive?
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Ex-housemate cancelling NHS appointments (United Kingdom)
My friend got stabbed by her brother and can't return homeWife sent to collections 3 years after a doctor's fee was settled (Connecticut)Can you press charges if an insurance carrier refuses to stop billing you, even when you're no longer an insured?Can doctor's offices withhold test results for some length of time?What should i do when my landlord breaks an agreement, and later invokes the 60 days tenant notice in OntarioWhy was the NHS able to prevent Charlie Gard's parents from taking their child to the US?Do non-EU international speeding offences count lawfully for UK insurance declarations?Is less than 3 years a legally sufficient lifespan for a TV in the UK/EU?Redundancy with no consultationHow to get my Hospital bill settled down for a service that I didn't receive?
For a year or so, my wife and I lived in a shared household with largely random people in the UK. We did not get on well with one individual, and after a year we chose to move out into our own place. Whilst we were living in shared accommodation, my wife required a medical procedure on the NHS, but because the waiting time was so long, we did not hear back from them before moving out.
After moving out and not hearing anything from the NHS after ~6 months, my wife contacted the hospital that was supposed to schedule the appointment to find out when the procedure would be scheduled. The person at the hospital told her that an appointment had been scheduled for several months ago, and a letter was sent to our old property. She then went on to explain that someone had rung up to cancel the appointment. My wife informed them that she hadn't, and the person from the hospital provided the telephone number of the person who called. Needless to say the number was for our old housemate with which we had a number of disagreements.
As one final note, the ex-housemate, whose number matches that which called up to cancel my wife's appointment, is a full-time nurse employed in the NHS.
- Has any crime been committed, and if so, is there any point in pursuing this with the police? If so, how do I go about it?
- Even if a crime has not been committed, I would think that at the very least, opening someone's mail and then impersonating them and cancelling the surgery would at least be viewed as unprofessional, especially for someone employed in the NHS. Is there a procedure for making a complaint against an NHS worker?
criminal-law united-kingdom fraud health
edited Sep 27 '17 at 18:32
Nij
2,07031226
asked Sep 26 '17 at 13:42
JamesPDJamesPD
291
add a comment |
For a year or so, my wife and I lived in a shared household with largely random people in the UK. We did not get on well with one individual, and after a year we chose to move out into our own place. Whilst we were living in shared accommodation, my wife required a medical procedure on the NHS, but because the waiting time was so long, we did not hear back from them before moving out.
After moving out and not hearing anything from the NHS after ~6 months, my wife contacted the hospital that was supposed to schedule the appointment to find out when the procedure would be scheduled. The person at the hospital told her that an appointment had been scheduled for several months ago, and a letter was sent to our old property. She then went on to explain that someone had rung up to cancel the appointment. My wife informed them that she hadn't, and the person from the hospital provided the telephone number of the person who called. Needless to say the number was for our old housemate with which we had a number of disagreements.
As one final note, the ex-housemate, whose number matches that which called up to cancel my wife's appointment, is a full-time nurse employed in the NHS.
- Has any crime been committed, and if so, is there any point in pursuing this with the police? If so, how do I go about it?
- Even if a crime has not been committed, I would think that at the very least, opening someone's mail and then impersonating them and cancelling the surgery would at least be viewed as unprofessional, especially for someone employed in the NHS. Is there a procedure for making a complaint against an NHS worker?
criminal-law united-kingdom fraud health
edited Sep 27 '17 at 18:32
Nij
2,07031226
asked Sep 26 '17 at 13:42
JamesPDJamesPD
291
In the UK, when you call a healthcare provider, are you usually asked to confirm your identify via birth date, NI number, etc.? If so, then it's a little clearer that the ex-housemate had to open the letter and/or otherwise had access to and made use of private information.
– mkennedy
Sep 26 '17 at 22:27
In terms of civil liability an important issue would be if there was any obligation on your part to notify the NHS or the post of your change of address. Also, of course, even if I crime were committed and it was prosecuted, this would not make you any better off.
– ohwilleke
Sep 27 '17 at 12:05
Have you suffered any loss due to the cancellation? Financial, having to wait longer for treatment and suffering in the mean time, that sort of thing?
– user
Sep 28 '17 at 9:21
add a comment |
For a year or so, my wife and I lived in a shared household with largely random people in the UK. We did not get on well with one individual, and after a year we chose to move out into our own place. Whilst we were living in shared accommodation, my wife required a medical procedure on the NHS, but because the waiting time was so long, we did not hear back from them before moving out.
After moving out and not hearing anything from the NHS after ~6 months, my wife contacted the hospital that was supposed to schedule the appointment to find out when the procedure would be scheduled. The person at the hospital told her that an appointment had been scheduled for several months ago, and a letter was sent to our old property. She then went on to explain that someone had rung up to cancel the appointment. My wife informed them that she hadn't, and the person from the hospital provided the telephone number of the person who called. Needless to say the number was for our old housemate with which we had a number of disagreements.
As one final note, the ex-housemate, whose number matches that which called up to cancel my wife's appointment, is a full-time nurse employed in the NHS.
- Has any crime been committed, and if so, is there any point in pursuing this with the police? If so, how do I go about it?
- Even if a crime has not been committed, I would think that at the very least, opening someone's mail and then impersonating them and cancelling the surgery would at least be viewed as unprofessional, especially for someone employed in the NHS. Is there a procedure for making a complaint against an NHS worker?
criminal-law united-kingdom fraud health
edited Sep 27 '17 at 18:32
Nij
2,07031226
asked Sep 26 '17 at 13:42
JamesPDJamesPD
291
For a year or so, my wife and I lived in a shared household with largely random people in the UK. We did not get on well with one individual, and after a year we chose to move out into our own place. Whilst we were living in shared accommodation, my wife required a medical procedure on the NHS, but because the waiting time was so long, we did not hear back from them before moving out.
After moving out and not hearing anything from the NHS after ~6 months, my wife contacted the hospital that was supposed to schedule the appointment to find out when the procedure would be scheduled. The person at the hospital told her that an appointment had been scheduled for several months ago, and a letter was sent to our old property. She then went on to explain that someone had rung up to cancel the appointment. My wife informed them that she hadn't, and the person from the hospital provided the telephone number of the person who called. Needless to say the number was for our old housemate with which we had a number of disagreements.
As one final note, the ex-housemate, whose number matches that which called up to cancel my wife's appointment, is a full-time nurse employed in the NHS.
- Has any crime been committed, and if so, is there any point in pursuing this with the police? If so, how do I go about it?
- Even if a crime has not been committed, I would think that at the very least, opening someone's mail and then impersonating them and cancelling the surgery would at least be viewed as unprofessional, especially for someone employed in the NHS. Is there a procedure for making a complaint against an NHS worker?
criminal-law united-kingdom fraud health
criminal-law united-kingdom fraud health
edited Sep 27 '17 at 18:32
Nij
2,07031226
asked Sep 26 '17 at 13:42
JamesPDJamesPD
291
edited Sep 27 '17 at 18:32
Nij
2,07031226
asked Sep 26 '17 at 13:42
JamesPDJamesPD
291
edited Sep 27 '17 at 18:32
Nij
2,07031226
edited Sep 27 '17 at 18:32
Nij
2,07031226
edited Sep 27 '17 at 18:32
Nij
2,07031226
2,07031226
asked Sep 26 '17 at 13:42
JamesPDJamesPD
291
asked Sep 26 '17 at 13:42
JamesPDJamesPD
291
asked Sep 26 '17 at 13:42
JamesPDJamesPD
291
291
In the UK, when you call a healthcare provider, are you usually asked to confirm your identify via birth date, NI number, etc.? If so, then it's a little clearer that the ex-housemate had to open the letter and/or otherwise had access to and made use of private information.
– mkennedy
Sep 26 '17 at 22:27
In terms of civil liability an important issue would be if there was any obligation on your part to notify the NHS or the post of your change of address. Also, of course, even if I crime were committed and it was prosecuted, this would not make you any better off.
– ohwilleke
Sep 27 '17 at 12:05
Have you suffered any loss due to the cancellation? Financial, having to wait longer for treatment and suffering in the mean time, that sort of thing?
– user
Sep 28 '17 at 9:21
add a comment |
In the UK, when you call a healthcare provider, are you usually asked to confirm your identify via birth date, NI number, etc.? If so, then it's a little clearer that the ex-housemate had to open the letter and/or otherwise had access to and made use of private information.
– mkennedy
Sep 26 '17 at 22:27
In terms of civil liability an important issue would be if there was any obligation on your part to notify the NHS or the post of your change of address. Also, of course, even if I crime were committed and it was prosecuted, this would not make you any better off.
– ohwilleke
Sep 27 '17 at 12:05
Have you suffered any loss due to the cancellation? Financial, having to wait longer for treatment and suffering in the mean time, that sort of thing?
– user
Sep 28 '17 at 9:21
In the UK, when you call a healthcare provider, are you usually asked to confirm your identify via birth date, NI number, etc.? If so, then it's a little clearer that the ex-housemate had to open the letter and/or otherwise had access to and made use of private information.
– mkennedy
Sep 26 '17 at 22:27
In the UK, when you call a healthcare provider, are you usually asked to confirm your identify via birth date, NI number, etc.? If so, then it's a little clearer that the ex-housemate had to open the letter and/or otherwise had access to and made use of private information.
– mkennedy
Sep 26 '17 at 22:27
In terms of civil liability an important issue would be if there was any obligation on your part to notify the NHS or the post of your change of address. Also, of course, even if I crime were committed and it was prosecuted, this would not make you any better off.
– ohwilleke
Sep 27 '17 at 12:05
In terms of civil liability an important issue would be if there was any obligation on your part to notify the NHS or the post of your change of address. Also, of course, even if I crime were committed and it was prosecuted, this would not make you any better off.
– ohwilleke
Sep 27 '17 at 12:05
Have you suffered any loss due to the cancellation? Financial, having to wait longer for treatment and suffering in the mean time, that sort of thing?
– user
Sep 28 '17 at 9:21
Have you suffered any loss due to the cancellation? Financial, having to wait longer for treatment and suffering in the mean time, that sort of thing?
– user
Sep 28 '17 at 9:21
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
I'm obviously not a lawyer, nor a UK national, but I'm thinking your options are to start with several documents and sites that guide people who wish to make complaints against the NHS.
In reading the links posted below, there appear to be time limits (one year) from the time of the incident; and you'll need to make it clear early on that your complaint is about an individual who works for the NHS and not the care received, and that may change the process or impact the time limits.
The other aspect of this situation is the fact that the NHS employee appears to have had to impersonate you and/or use personal information to cancel that appointment for the procedure. I'll leave it to someone else with more experience in UK laws on privacy and health information to post those laws and their possible impacts.
Overall, it appears to be a complex situation that may involve both the NHS and your local authorities.
For what it's worth, take a look at
How do I make a complaint about an NHS service? - Health questions - NHS Choices
and
NHS hospital complaints - Citizens Advice.
answered Sep 27 '17 at 2:24
BlueDogRanchBlueDogRanch
10.3k21838
add a comment |
I'm not a lawyer, but I am an NHS employee, and can more concretely answer your questions.
Has any crime been committed, and if so, is there any point in pursuing this with the police? If so, how do I go about it?
Yes, in-fact, several crimes have been committed.
Firstly, NHS employees are prohibited from viewing patient's personal information that they are not specifically treating. In opening your letter from the NHS, the nurse in question violated this practice. It's a breach of both privacy and trust. This is taught at the NHS and the nurse would be aware of this.
Secondly, by cancelling your appointment, the nurse has committed workplace fraud. They have impersonated a patient, and in doing so, cost the NHS money and time it won't get back by cancelling your appointment. Again, this is also taught within the NHS, and the nurse would be aware of this too.
Thirdly, by cancelling your appointment, the nurse may have put a life in danger in doing so, which is effectively gross negligence at a minimum.
Although this can be reported to the police, it'll be more effective to report it to the appropriate NHS bodies.
Even if a crime has not been committed, I would think that at the very least, opening someone's mail and then impersonating them and cancelling the surgery would at least be viewed as unprofessional, especially for someone employed in the NHS. Is there a procedure for making a complaint against an NHS worker?
There are several different approaches, given the various breaches of trust.
As BlueDogRanch mentioned, you can file a compliant to NHS England, which includes via email. Be sure to get appropriate information like the nurse's name, address, and if possible any details (like appointment reference numbers) to aid the investigation.
Secondly, because of the cost incurred via the malicious cancellation of an appointment, costing time and money (and running the risk of opening the NHS to litigation), you can also report the fraudulent aspects to the NHS Counter Fraud Authority.
I apologise for the terrible behaviour of the staff member in question and wish to assure you we're not all like that.
answered 4 hours ago
SSight3SSight3
26026
add a comment |
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
I'm obviously not a lawyer, nor a UK national, but I'm thinking your options are to start with several documents and sites that guide people who wish to make complaints against the NHS.
In reading the links posted below, there appear to be time limits (one year) from the time of the incident; and you'll need to make it clear early on that your complaint is about an individual who works for the NHS and not the care received, and that may change the process or impact the time limits.
The other aspect of this situation is the fact that the NHS employee appears to have had to impersonate you and/or use personal information to cancel that appointment for the procedure. I'll leave it to someone else with more experience in UK laws on privacy and health information to post those laws and their possible impacts.
Overall, it appears to be a complex situation that may involve both the NHS and your local authorities.
For what it's worth, take a look at
How do I make a complaint about an NHS service? - Health questions - NHS Choices
and
NHS hospital complaints - Citizens Advice.
answered Sep 27 '17 at 2:24
BlueDogRanchBlueDogRanch
10.3k21838
add a comment |
I'm obviously not a lawyer, nor a UK national, but I'm thinking your options are to start with several documents and sites that guide people who wish to make complaints against the NHS.
In reading the links posted below, there appear to be time limits (one year) from the time of the incident; and you'll need to make it clear early on that your complaint is about an individual who works for the NHS and not the care received, and that may change the process or impact the time limits.
The other aspect of this situation is the fact that the NHS employee appears to have had to impersonate you and/or use personal information to cancel that appointment for the procedure. I'll leave it to someone else with more experience in UK laws on privacy and health information to post those laws and their possible impacts.
Overall, it appears to be a complex situation that may involve both the NHS and your local authorities.
For what it's worth, take a look at
How do I make a complaint about an NHS service? - Health questions - NHS Choices
and
NHS hospital complaints - Citizens Advice.
answered Sep 27 '17 at 2:24
BlueDogRanchBlueDogRanch
10.3k21838
add a comment |
I'm obviously not a lawyer, nor a UK national, but I'm thinking your options are to start with several documents and sites that guide people who wish to make complaints against the NHS.
In reading the links posted below, there appear to be time limits (one year) from the time of the incident; and you'll need to make it clear early on that your complaint is about an individual who works for the NHS and not the care received, and that may change the process or impact the time limits.
The other aspect of this situation is the fact that the NHS employee appears to have had to impersonate you and/or use personal information to cancel that appointment for the procedure. I'll leave it to someone else with more experience in UK laws on privacy and health information to post those laws and their possible impacts.
Overall, it appears to be a complex situation that may involve both the NHS and your local authorities.
For what it's worth, take a look at
How do I make a complaint about an NHS service? - Health questions - NHS Choices
and
NHS hospital complaints - Citizens Advice.
answered Sep 27 '17 at 2:24
BlueDogRanchBlueDogRanch
10.3k21838
I'm obviously not a lawyer, nor a UK national, but I'm thinking your options are to start with several documents and sites that guide people who wish to make complaints against the NHS.
In reading the links posted below, there appear to be time limits (one year) from the time of the incident; and you'll need to make it clear early on that your complaint is about an individual who works for the NHS and not the care received, and that may change the process or impact the time limits.
The other aspect of this situation is the fact that the NHS employee appears to have had to impersonate you and/or use personal information to cancel that appointment for the procedure. I'll leave it to someone else with more experience in UK laws on privacy and health information to post those laws and their possible impacts.
Overall, it appears to be a complex situation that may involve both the NHS and your local authorities.
For what it's worth, take a look at
How do I make a complaint about an NHS service? - Health questions - NHS Choices
and
NHS hospital complaints - Citizens Advice.
answered Sep 27 '17 at 2:24
BlueDogRanchBlueDogRanch
10.3k21838
answered Sep 27 '17 at 2:24
BlueDogRanchBlueDogRanch
10.3k21838
answered Sep 27 '17 at 2:24
BlueDogRanchBlueDogRanch
10.3k21838
answered Sep 27 '17 at 2:24
BlueDogRanchBlueDogRanch
10.3k21838
10.3k21838
add a comment |
add a comment |
I'm not a lawyer, but I am an NHS employee, and can more concretely answer your questions.
Has any crime been committed, and if so, is there any point in pursuing this with the police? If so, how do I go about it?
Yes, in-fact, several crimes have been committed.
Firstly, NHS employees are prohibited from viewing patient's personal information that they are not specifically treating. In opening your letter from the NHS, the nurse in question violated this practice. It's a breach of both privacy and trust. This is taught at the NHS and the nurse would be aware of this.
Secondly, by cancelling your appointment, the nurse has committed workplace fraud. They have impersonated a patient, and in doing so, cost the NHS money and time it won't get back by cancelling your appointment. Again, this is also taught within the NHS, and the nurse would be aware of this too.
Thirdly, by cancelling your appointment, the nurse may have put a life in danger in doing so, which is effectively gross negligence at a minimum.
Although this can be reported to the police, it'll be more effective to report it to the appropriate NHS bodies.
Even if a crime has not been committed, I would think that at the very least, opening someone's mail and then impersonating them and cancelling the surgery would at least be viewed as unprofessional, especially for someone employed in the NHS. Is there a procedure for making a complaint against an NHS worker?
There are several different approaches, given the various breaches of trust.
As BlueDogRanch mentioned, you can file a compliant to NHS England, which includes via email. Be sure to get appropriate information like the nurse's name, address, and if possible any details (like appointment reference numbers) to aid the investigation.
Secondly, because of the cost incurred via the malicious cancellation of an appointment, costing time and money (and running the risk of opening the NHS to litigation), you can also report the fraudulent aspects to the NHS Counter Fraud Authority.
I apologise for the terrible behaviour of the staff member in question and wish to assure you we're not all like that.
answered 4 hours ago
SSight3SSight3
26026
add a comment |
I'm not a lawyer, but I am an NHS employee, and can more concretely answer your questions.
Has any crime been committed, and if so, is there any point in pursuing this with the police? If so, how do I go about it?
Yes, in-fact, several crimes have been committed.
Firstly, NHS employees are prohibited from viewing patient's personal information that they are not specifically treating. In opening your letter from the NHS, the nurse in question violated this practice. It's a breach of both privacy and trust. This is taught at the NHS and the nurse would be aware of this.
Secondly, by cancelling your appointment, the nurse has committed workplace fraud. They have impersonated a patient, and in doing so, cost the NHS money and time it won't get back by cancelling your appointment. Again, this is also taught within the NHS, and the nurse would be aware of this too.
Thirdly, by cancelling your appointment, the nurse may have put a life in danger in doing so, which is effectively gross negligence at a minimum.
Although this can be reported to the police, it'll be more effective to report it to the appropriate NHS bodies.
Even if a crime has not been committed, I would think that at the very least, opening someone's mail and then impersonating them and cancelling the surgery would at least be viewed as unprofessional, especially for someone employed in the NHS. Is there a procedure for making a complaint against an NHS worker?
There are several different approaches, given the various breaches of trust.
As BlueDogRanch mentioned, you can file a compliant to NHS England, which includes via email. Be sure to get appropriate information like the nurse's name, address, and if possible any details (like appointment reference numbers) to aid the investigation.
Secondly, because of the cost incurred via the malicious cancellation of an appointment, costing time and money (and running the risk of opening the NHS to litigation), you can also report the fraudulent aspects to the NHS Counter Fraud Authority.
I apologise for the terrible behaviour of the staff member in question and wish to assure you we're not all like that.
answered 4 hours ago
SSight3SSight3
26026
add a comment |
I'm not a lawyer, but I am an NHS employee, and can more concretely answer your questions.
Has any crime been committed, and if so, is there any point in pursuing this with the police? If so, how do I go about it?
Yes, in-fact, several crimes have been committed.
Firstly, NHS employees are prohibited from viewing patient's personal information that they are not specifically treating. In opening your letter from the NHS, the nurse in question violated this practice. It's a breach of both privacy and trust. This is taught at the NHS and the nurse would be aware of this.
Secondly, by cancelling your appointment, the nurse has committed workplace fraud. They have impersonated a patient, and in doing so, cost the NHS money and time it won't get back by cancelling your appointment. Again, this is also taught within the NHS, and the nurse would be aware of this too.
Thirdly, by cancelling your appointment, the nurse may have put a life in danger in doing so, which is effectively gross negligence at a minimum.
Although this can be reported to the police, it'll be more effective to report it to the appropriate NHS bodies.
Even if a crime has not been committed, I would think that at the very least, opening someone's mail and then impersonating them and cancelling the surgery would at least be viewed as unprofessional, especially for someone employed in the NHS. Is there a procedure for making a complaint against an NHS worker?
There are several different approaches, given the various breaches of trust.
As BlueDogRanch mentioned, you can file a compliant to NHS England, which includes via email. Be sure to get appropriate information like the nurse's name, address, and if possible any details (like appointment reference numbers) to aid the investigation.
Secondly, because of the cost incurred via the malicious cancellation of an appointment, costing time and money (and running the risk of opening the NHS to litigation), you can also report the fraudulent aspects to the NHS Counter Fraud Authority.
I apologise for the terrible behaviour of the staff member in question and wish to assure you we're not all like that.
answered 4 hours ago
SSight3SSight3
26026
I'm not a lawyer, but I am an NHS employee, and can more concretely answer your questions.
Has any crime been committed, and if so, is there any point in pursuing this with the police? If so, how do I go about it?
Yes, in-fact, several crimes have been committed.
Firstly, NHS employees are prohibited from viewing patient's personal information that they are not specifically treating. In opening your letter from the NHS, the nurse in question violated this practice. It's a breach of both privacy and trust. This is taught at the NHS and the nurse would be aware of this.
Secondly, by cancelling your appointment, the nurse has committed workplace fraud. They have impersonated a patient, and in doing so, cost the NHS money and time it won't get back by cancelling your appointment. Again, this is also taught within the NHS, and the nurse would be aware of this too.
Thirdly, by cancelling your appointment, the nurse may have put a life in danger in doing so, which is effectively gross negligence at a minimum.
Although this can be reported to the police, it'll be more effective to report it to the appropriate NHS bodies.
Even if a crime has not been committed, I would think that at the very least, opening someone's mail and then impersonating them and cancelling the surgery would at least be viewed as unprofessional, especially for someone employed in the NHS. Is there a procedure for making a complaint against an NHS worker?
There are several different approaches, given the various breaches of trust.
As BlueDogRanch mentioned, you can file a compliant to NHS England, which includes via email. Be sure to get appropriate information like the nurse's name, address, and if possible any details (like appointment reference numbers) to aid the investigation.
Secondly, because of the cost incurred via the malicious cancellation of an appointment, costing time and money (and running the risk of opening the NHS to litigation), you can also report the fraudulent aspects to the NHS Counter Fraud Authority.
I apologise for the terrible behaviour of the staff member in question and wish to assure you we're not all like that.
answered 4 hours ago
SSight3SSight3
26026
answered 4 hours ago
SSight3SSight3
26026
answered 4 hours ago
SSight3SSight3
26026
answered 4 hours ago
SSight3SSight3
26026
26026
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In the UK, when you call a healthcare provider, are you usually asked to confirm your identify via birth date, NI number, etc.? If so, then it's a little clearer that the ex-housemate had to open the letter and/or otherwise had access to and made use of private information.
– mkennedy
Sep 26 '17 at 22:27
In terms of civil liability an important issue would be if there was any obligation on your part to notify the NHS or the post of your change of address. Also, of course, even if I crime were committed and it was prosecuted, this would not make you any better off.
– ohwilleke
Sep 27 '17 at 12:05
Have you suffered any loss due to the cancellation? Financial, having to wait longer for treatment and suffering in the mean time, that sort of thing?
– user
Sep 28 '17 at 9:21