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Rejected in 4th interview round citing insufficient years of experience
Work Experience Mistake on a ResumeI followed up with the HR regarding my onsite interview. I did not get a chance to ask for timeline during the interview. Did I commit a blunder?A programming task is scaring off candidates, should we ditch it?What to Expect From a 4th Interview After Passing a Coding Challenge AND Technical InterviewApplying to similar position after not getting offer 1st timeWorking on live dev code in the interview process: ethical?Getting rejected in final roundsAfter interviews, two companies told me the position is no longer being filled. Is this an indirect way to reject candidates?Following up with HR after technical interviewShould we measure candidate based on resume and it's format
I have been interviewing with a very prominent software company, having completed 1 HR and 2 technical rounds (1 with the team's manager) before. In the 4th round (coding round) I did very well on the challenge and answered all questions barring 1(well I answered half of that too).
He later went on to say that you have only 2 years of experience and we want more. And kept the call saying 'That's it from my side'.
This is very frustrating since a month of effort and time has gone into this. And looking at a candidate's experience is something that should have been seen before. Cleary not in the 4th round.
My question is - is it ethical(for lack of a better word) for someone to speak to the manager when in similar situation? If yes, how should one approach?
interviewing software-industry hiring-process hiring
|
show 4 more comments
I have been interviewing with a very prominent software company, having completed 1 HR and 2 technical rounds (1 with the team's manager) before. In the 4th round (coding round) I did very well on the challenge and answered all questions barring 1(well I answered half of that too).
He later went on to say that you have only 2 years of experience and we want more. And kept the call saying 'That's it from my side'.
This is very frustrating since a month of effort and time has gone into this. And looking at a candidate's experience is something that should have been seen before. Cleary not in the 4th round.
My question is - is it ethical(for lack of a better word) for someone to speak to the manager when in similar situation? If yes, how should one approach?
interviewing software-industry hiring-process hiring
26
What do you expect to gain by doing this? Clearly the team manager doesn't want you on the team for whatever reason.
– sf02
13 hours ago
2
Are you saying you want to complain to the person who rejected you, or to their boss?
– David K
13 hours ago
28
I'd just like to comment that we may not know the whole picture. Imagine if the hiring manager had another candidate who also made it to the 4th round but had more years of experience. They dropped you and chose them instead. Or any of a bunch of other reasons, which caused them to give that as the reason to not hire you. If you're upset about them wasting your time, consider that they don't want to waste their time either.
– dwizum
11 hours ago
6
This is also a pretty generic catch all, it could be "A more experienced person would have also done x, for problem 1". The hiring manager probably doesn't want to get that specific and gives the more generic catch all response, but it may have more to do with your interview performance than you think.
– Kevin DiTraglia
8 hours ago
7
If it were just your years of experience, they probably would have filtered you out much earlier in the process. So there's probably some reason that they're not willing to tell you. Maybe they were hoping you'd blow them away during the coding tests and it would make up for it, but that didn't happen.
– Barmar
8 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
I have been interviewing with a very prominent software company, having completed 1 HR and 2 technical rounds (1 with the team's manager) before. In the 4th round (coding round) I did very well on the challenge and answered all questions barring 1(well I answered half of that too).
He later went on to say that you have only 2 years of experience and we want more. And kept the call saying 'That's it from my side'.
This is very frustrating since a month of effort and time has gone into this. And looking at a candidate's experience is something that should have been seen before. Cleary not in the 4th round.
My question is - is it ethical(for lack of a better word) for someone to speak to the manager when in similar situation? If yes, how should one approach?
interviewing software-industry hiring-process hiring
I have been interviewing with a very prominent software company, having completed 1 HR and 2 technical rounds (1 with the team's manager) before. In the 4th round (coding round) I did very well on the challenge and answered all questions barring 1(well I answered half of that too).
He later went on to say that you have only 2 years of experience and we want more. And kept the call saying 'That's it from my side'.
This is very frustrating since a month of effort and time has gone into this. And looking at a candidate's experience is something that should have been seen before. Cleary not in the 4th round.
My question is - is it ethical(for lack of a better word) for someone to speak to the manager when in similar situation? If yes, how should one approach?
interviewing software-industry hiring-process hiring
interviewing software-industry hiring-process hiring
edited 12 hours ago
labmat
asked 13 hours ago
labmatlabmat
15226
15226
26
What do you expect to gain by doing this? Clearly the team manager doesn't want you on the team for whatever reason.
– sf02
13 hours ago
2
Are you saying you want to complain to the person who rejected you, or to their boss?
– David K
13 hours ago
28
I'd just like to comment that we may not know the whole picture. Imagine if the hiring manager had another candidate who also made it to the 4th round but had more years of experience. They dropped you and chose them instead. Or any of a bunch of other reasons, which caused them to give that as the reason to not hire you. If you're upset about them wasting your time, consider that they don't want to waste their time either.
– dwizum
11 hours ago
6
This is also a pretty generic catch all, it could be "A more experienced person would have also done x, for problem 1". The hiring manager probably doesn't want to get that specific and gives the more generic catch all response, but it may have more to do with your interview performance than you think.
– Kevin DiTraglia
8 hours ago
7
If it were just your years of experience, they probably would have filtered you out much earlier in the process. So there's probably some reason that they're not willing to tell you. Maybe they were hoping you'd blow them away during the coding tests and it would make up for it, but that didn't happen.
– Barmar
8 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
26
What do you expect to gain by doing this? Clearly the team manager doesn't want you on the team for whatever reason.
– sf02
13 hours ago
2
Are you saying you want to complain to the person who rejected you, or to their boss?
– David K
13 hours ago
28
I'd just like to comment that we may not know the whole picture. Imagine if the hiring manager had another candidate who also made it to the 4th round but had more years of experience. They dropped you and chose them instead. Or any of a bunch of other reasons, which caused them to give that as the reason to not hire you. If you're upset about them wasting your time, consider that they don't want to waste their time either.
– dwizum
11 hours ago
6
This is also a pretty generic catch all, it could be "A more experienced person would have also done x, for problem 1". The hiring manager probably doesn't want to get that specific and gives the more generic catch all response, but it may have more to do with your interview performance than you think.
– Kevin DiTraglia
8 hours ago
7
If it were just your years of experience, they probably would have filtered you out much earlier in the process. So there's probably some reason that they're not willing to tell you. Maybe they were hoping you'd blow them away during the coding tests and it would make up for it, but that didn't happen.
– Barmar
8 hours ago
26
26
What do you expect to gain by doing this? Clearly the team manager doesn't want you on the team for whatever reason.
– sf02
13 hours ago
What do you expect to gain by doing this? Clearly the team manager doesn't want you on the team for whatever reason.
– sf02
13 hours ago
2
2
Are you saying you want to complain to the person who rejected you, or to their boss?
– David K
13 hours ago
Are you saying you want to complain to the person who rejected you, or to their boss?
– David K
13 hours ago
28
28
I'd just like to comment that we may not know the whole picture. Imagine if the hiring manager had another candidate who also made it to the 4th round but had more years of experience. They dropped you and chose them instead. Or any of a bunch of other reasons, which caused them to give that as the reason to not hire you. If you're upset about them wasting your time, consider that they don't want to waste their time either.
– dwizum
11 hours ago
I'd just like to comment that we may not know the whole picture. Imagine if the hiring manager had another candidate who also made it to the 4th round but had more years of experience. They dropped you and chose them instead. Or any of a bunch of other reasons, which caused them to give that as the reason to not hire you. If you're upset about them wasting your time, consider that they don't want to waste their time either.
– dwizum
11 hours ago
6
6
This is also a pretty generic catch all, it could be "A more experienced person would have also done x, for problem 1". The hiring manager probably doesn't want to get that specific and gives the more generic catch all response, but it may have more to do with your interview performance than you think.
– Kevin DiTraglia
8 hours ago
This is also a pretty generic catch all, it could be "A more experienced person would have also done x, for problem 1". The hiring manager probably doesn't want to get that specific and gives the more generic catch all response, but it may have more to do with your interview performance than you think.
– Kevin DiTraglia
8 hours ago
7
7
If it were just your years of experience, they probably would have filtered you out much earlier in the process. So there's probably some reason that they're not willing to tell you. Maybe they were hoping you'd blow them away during the coding tests and it would make up for it, but that didn't happen.
– Barmar
8 hours ago
If it were just your years of experience, they probably would have filtered you out much earlier in the process. So there's probably some reason that they're not willing to tell you. Maybe they were hoping you'd blow them away during the coding tests and it would make up for it, but that didn't happen.
– Barmar
8 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
12 Answers
12
active
oldest
votes
Why didn't they say you didn't have enough experience earlier in the process?
Because it isn't true.
You had enough experience going in, but you didn't get the job. Now they need to give you a reason why they chose the successful candidate and not you, and that candidate has more experience than you. So now, compared to the successful candidate, you don't have enough experience.
Of course, that may have nothing to do with why they really chose the other candidate. It's post-hoc justifications all the way down.
31
This is by far the most likely explanation.
– BittermanAndy
8 hours ago
1
I once applied for an entry-level job that had a high school class requirement. With my bachelor's degree in that particular field, I thought that I had the position in the bag, especially after a great interview. A week later they informed me that I didn't get the job. After pressing, the interviewer explained that they went with someone with a master's.
– Lux Claridge
7 hours ago
1
This is a great answer, but could you address the actual question asked by the OP? "My question is - is it ethical(for lack of a better word) for someone to speak to the manager when in similar situation? If yes, how should one approach?"
– David K
6 hours ago
Already addressed by the other upvoted answers, I think, David K
– Rupert Morrish
6 hours ago
This is very true and two can tango. When similar things have happened to me and feel bitter about it, I just imagine the real reason is b/c they were incompetent and pissed off their investors. Is it true? NO. Does it need to be true? NO. The important thing is to take care of the moral injury and move on.
– emory
2 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
I would not say it is unethical, but you will not gain anything from it by speaking to the manager.
As @Kozaky mentioned, it is possible they want their average years of experience to be higher. Is it smart? Probably not, since experience does not necessarily equal competence.
Also, though, is the fact that you may want to apply at this company in the future, and complaining about something like this will likely put you on a "blacklist" of some sort.
Understandly, it is not fair to you. However, there is little recourse in this matter. Get your frustration out, and move on. That's the best you can do.
New contributor
add a comment |
As many have already pointed out - it isn't necessarily 'unethical,' but you don't stand to gain much from having that conversation. You got a reason for the decision (even if that answer is vague or unsatisfactory) which is more than most applicants get.
That being said, this is an incredibly frustrating situation (speaking from experience).
If I may offer some unsolicited advice: I think you should view this as their loss. It can be difficult to see the positive side of this situation in light of the outcome, but you should celebrate the fact that you did very well in the interview and lost the opportunity for reasons beyond your present control.
Sometimes hiring managers have a change of heart down the road (especially if the 'experienced' candidate isn't working out) and this company may in fact reach out to you months or even years later (perhaps for a different, yet similar role). If you're doing this well in interviews you will definitely have a job by then, but they may present you with a really attractive offer. If that does happen, you need to consider why they turned you down in the first place. Don't get caught up working with a group of people that value perception over reality!
It's possible you dodged a bullet here. Take a few days off from the job hunt if you can afford it and realign yourself. Best of luck!
New contributor
Assuming that you do want to work for this "very prominent software company", you could send the hiring manager with a CC to HR thanking them for the opportunity. Politely express that you are disappointed that you didn't meet all requirements and that you wish to be considered for any future positions where you would be an even better fit. Yes, hard to write, but it is always better to take the high road. Of course, all of the foregoing assumes that you DO WANT to work there. Which judging by the hurt you feel, could be the case.
– CyberFonic
3 hours ago
add a comment |
It's not unethical, in the legal sense, as in you really have no method of recourse against them for any reason. You also probably shouldn't complain to the manager, as it's probably not their call as to what the company is hiring for, especially if it's a large company (large companies often have "hiring pools" from which managers can take candidates they like; it's very rare that a manager in a large company will specifically hire for a specific position, at least not until a placement stage which happens after the offer stage).
If you would like to complain to someone, you should complain to the recruiter who introduced you to that company, especially if that recruiter is a 3rd party recruiter (not someone internal to the company). Speaking specifically about 3rd party recruiters, it's important to let a 3rd party recruiter know for 2 reasons:
1) Recruiters get paid when candidates get placed, usually as a percentage of that candidate's salary. If the recruiter does a bunch of work but the company is stingy and won't let the recruiter place a candidate, then the recruiter is wasting their time. Recruiters don't want to waste their time, so they should be made to know if the company is being stingy.
2) Client behaviour can impact a recruiter's image. For example, if I talk to a recruiter and tell them my background is Java backend, and they send me to a company who wants to hire Ruby frontend developers, I'm going to be pretty mad at that recruiter for wasting my time sending me to a company that wasn't a good fit. This is a simple obvious example, but the same holds in your case; the recruiter sent you to a company that was not looking for someone with your qualifications. This looks bad on the recruiter. Now, hopefully, the recruiter didn't do this maliciously, and it's likely there was a simple miscommunication between the recruiter and the company. However, that doesn't change the fact that this is what they did, and this looks bad on their image as a recruiter. If the recruiter wants to maintain their image and reputation, they should not deal with companies who miscommunicate their expectations and waste applicants' time (and recruiter's time placing those applicants!). So once again, the recruiter should be made to know if this is going on.
Internal recruiters have neither of these concerns, so if you're dealing with an internal recruiter these statements do not apply. As such, you can do whatever you feel is right.
The rest more or less depends on how much you would like to pursue this company in the future. Do you believe this is a miscommunication, or do you believe this is a symptom of a systemic problem in the company as a whole? If you believe you would like to pursue this company in the future, then you should probably just drop it; you failed the interview for whatever reason (in this case by no fault of your own, just to be clear; the company is 100% in the wrong here, but that doesn't change the fact that you didn't get an offer), try again next time. If you feel like this has left such a bad taste in your mouth that you are no longer interested in the company, then feel free to say whatever you like to whomever you like; if you consider their bridge burned with you, then you have no problem burning your bridge with them.
In either case, I would write a review on a job posting review board (if the company is North American then my recommendation would be Glassdoor; if not, then use whatever is popular for your locale) detailing your experience. Most of these boards are anonymous so the company wouldn't know it was you, and at the same time you will be warning people of these sorts of experiences. I know that I personally look up every company I interview with on Glassdoor before I consider applying/interviewing there, so as much as you may think "nobody reads that crap what am I really wasting my time on?", there are people who really do read it and listen to what people say there.
It was a third party in my case. Also I looked up and the job posting did say 3 or more years. But I had a conversation about this with the HR and the manager as well, and the did say it was ok and we proceeded to the next round.Thank you for your point on third party recruiter.
– labmat
10 hours ago
What is there to "warn" other people about regarding posting this experience on a job posting review board? They interviewed the candidate and didn't want them.
– dwizum
8 hours ago
@dwizum They wasted almost a month of the candidate's time on something that they could have found in 5 seconds by actually reading the candidate's resume. Not even reading the resume is the utmost of disrespect; it's like going to interview at a company without reading the company's website or the job description, either of which would likely end the interview immediately.
– Ertai87
8 hours ago
add a comment |
No, it wouldn't be unethical, but it would be a total waste of time.
This was a jerk move on their part, and IMO, they screened themselves out of the running. Don't waste a moment's time with them. The interview is the very best you will ever see the company. If they're bad in the interview, they will be worse to work for.
add a comment |
Like others have said, it's best to move on. Pretend it never happened, and get it out of your system right away. Forget it, clear your mind, and move onto the next (better) one, but do keep in mind that it could happen again, too, so keep your mind prepared.
Maybe it'll make you feel better knowing my story (and I also need to get this out - because it hurts).
I was out of work for 4+ months (trusted someone, and they broke my trust very badly..), and wife was 6-7 months pregnant. Had applied to countless places, but even with years of experience, Masters degree, and many personal projects, usual reply (if I got any) was "background doesn't match".
Finally got skype interview setup for a company in NY. Did great in that. Got 2nd skype setup, did great in that, and got to coding challenge. Started coding at 7am in the morning. Had to take wife to doc the same day, so I took my laptop to hospital, sat on floor in hallway and coded the exercise. It was a very large coding exercise, and ended up working on it, and finishing at 12:30 that night (yup, night!) They reviewed it, loved it, and yet another skype with engineers was setup, and they approved/liked solution. Got invited for in-person at their office in NY. Paid for hotel+flight with my money (got reimbursed, see below). Flew 5 hours to NY. Spent night in hotel, and had in-person interview next day. 5-6 people took interview one after another. Engineers and I just clicked - they were super happy (not me saying, but they told me that)! Founder of company asked technical algorithm questions - did very well in that. All that took 5 hours. Came back 5 hour flight. And waited... waited... waited... They said, I'd hear back in 2 days. After 2 weeks, I got a "no". To date, I have no idea why, especially when the email stated something like "I fit perfectly in the culture". I asked to be reimbursed, and it took them 1 month since my return.
It's been months since this, and recently one of their HR person connected me to an outside hiring agency... That to me seems very fishy as well.
That company is a big NO on my list now.
I do have a job now, so at least I'm happy. But yes, these things happen. People say, "don't burn bridges". For people who engage in these types of behaviors, do I want to keep a bridge? Nope.
New contributor
add a comment |
I wouldn't describe it as unethical but it's certainly not advisable. I think you just have to move on from the bad experience by applying for jobs elsewhere. There's nothing to gain from pursuing with that job as the manager has already stated you don't have the years of experience they are looking for so it's a dead end.
I do sympathise, however, as it is incompetent of them to take four interview stages to decide this. Surely they could've just rejected your application due to lack of years experience than to waste your time by inviting you to not one but four interview stages.
Edit: Just realised I've almost repeated what Sagar has said apart from the second paragraph. I'll leave this answer here unless an admin wants to delete it.
add a comment |
It is happened to me as well. Doing many interviews for a digital marketing agency after 4 interviews they told me that the Ceo did not agree to hire me because I did not have enough work experience although I rocked in the interviews.
I think you have just to accept it, in this crazy job market anything can happen. What I also learned thanks to another "unfair" experience is about not given anything for grant and keep interviewing with as much as companies you can as long as you have in your hand a goddamn contract.
Especially for new graduate (as me) never had big expectations even though you did the best interview of your life.
Peppe
add a comment |
Hindsight is always 20/20
The right time to bring up your concern over lack of communication was to do it right after they told you that "you have only 2 years of experience and we want more."
Your response should have been:
My apologies if I seem frustrated but could you tell me why I wasn't disqualified sooner? It has been a fairly large time and energy investment on my part to make it through the interviews thus far. If my resume misled you in any way then please let me know because I would like to fix it ASAP.
You can try to call the recruiter or hiring manager and express your concern calmly and politely as I did above.
It is very unlikely that you will get the job for expressing your concerns but at least they may provide some closure such as:
Our apologies, let us clarify by explaining XYZ and why our reasoning was worded in that way.
Or maybe you did bad enough in previous rounds so they are saying that more experience will help you to do better in the future.
add a comment |
Beyond the sentiments above (ethical but what will you gain?), you mention this is a prominent company.
This is very possibly one of the standard canned answers that legal has defined as a reason to legitimately overlook a candidate. If they toe the company line with such a generic answer, it's easy for every level to stick to the story and any lawsuit stands less of a chance.
About the only angle I see following up benefitting you is if you somehow would catch them in the lie and learn the winning candidate was less experienced and there were some grounds for some type of actionable discrimination. But beyond theoretically possible, I see little way you'd ever prove any of it.
1
wrote "...catch them in the lie and learn the winning candidate was less experienced..." About 5 years ago, I didn't get a job and personally knew the guy who was hired instead. Hiring manager was nice enough to give me advice... but happened to mention that first thing he does is throw applications not meeting minimum degree and years-experience requirements into the trash without a second thought. I told him I knew the hire personally and that he had no degree at all (it required bachelors) and didn't meet their years-experience requested either... he was quite embarrassed.
– Aaron
5 hours ago
add a comment |
Is it ethical? I don't see any reason why it would be unethical. But the more important question is, Is it likely to be productive? And the answer to that is, Almost certainly not.
I'm not sure if you mean to call the interviewer to complain or to call his boss. But either way, what do you expect would happen? Do you think you will complain that the interview was unfair and wasted your time, and they'll reply, "Zounds! You're right! We're going to offer you the job after all." No. Most likely they'd shrug and say, "Oh, sorry." At best, you'll just waste more of your time. At worst, you'll annoy them and ruin any chance of getting a job with this company in the future.
And bear in mind, when a company rejects you, the reason they give may or may not be the real reason. When they reject you, they don't want to insult yo. They're not going to say, "We rejected you because we concluded you're an idiot" or "because you smell bad". And they don't want to get into an argument. Often the real reason is vague, like "I have a bad feeling about this guy" or "I don't think he'd fit in our company". But if they say that, then you might say, "Well what's wrong with me? Why don't you think I'd be a good employee?" and they don't have a concrete answer. (And of course if they rejected you for a reason that isn't legal in your jurisdiction, they don't like your race or you let slip something about your politics or religion or whatever that offends them, they're not going to admit that and give you grounds for a lawsuit.) "You don't have enough experience" is simple, doesn't sound nasty, and sounds objective.
Maybe you thought the interviews went very well but they didn't. Yes, getting rejected when you thought the interview went well is very frustrating. But there's little you can do but try to learn from the experience. Think over the interview and see if you can think of things you did wrong. Did you stumble over answers? Say things that in retrospect were not good answers? If so, now you know better for next time. If you can't think of anything you fumbled, well, it was good practice.
Just move on. You gain nothing by complaining except prolonging the aggravation.
add a comment |
The thing you need to bear in mind is that, in reality, there are basically three reasons for rejecting a candidate you've interviewed:
- you were good enough to hire but, sorry, they liked another candidate better;
- you weren't good enough to hire;
- they discovered that terrible thing you were trying to hide from them.
Any other reason they give you is really one of those in disguise. Typically they want to give something that objectively distinguishes you from the person they did hire. So "We wanted more experience" most likely means "We liked another candidate better, and they had more experience than you." Or, if the ad said they wanted somebody with more than two years' experience, it might mean "We thought you might be good enough to hire even though you didn't have the experience we said we wanted but, after interviewing you, we realised you weren't" (reason 2).
You can be fairly sure that it's not that they interviewed your four times and then noticed "Oops, not enough experience. Darn, we shoulda spotted that earlier!" There's nothing to be gained by talking to the company about this. They've made their decision and they've given you the only justification for it that they ever will.
Regarding #3: I once went through a ridiculous number of interviews at one place - I was surprised they did so freaking many, and last one was with the CTO. I wanted to work there because I had several friends and acquaintances who worked there. Before the last one, I nailed every interview and my friends on the inside told me everyone was super impressed and I was their top choice, with their runner up being someone inside looking for a promotion but that he wasn't likely to get it. At last interview with CTO, where he too acted impressed, he ended interview with "Is there anything else [...]
– Aaron
5 hours ago
[...] you'd like to bring up before we part ways?" And I was dumb enough to mention a religious dress code requirement I had at the time. It was no big deal; related to a Jewish tradition, it was just a small band I felt obligated to wear which said "love your neighbor as yourself" on it, and the company I work for now didn't care at all... but apparently that CTO cared a lot. As soon as I mentioned it, and I showed him one so he could see how small and no-big-deal it was, his face, speech, and entire demeanor changed. A buddy told me the CTO blocked me and that he refused to tell anyone why.
– Aaron
5 hours ago
That would probably have been such an easy religious discrimination lawsuit if I had chose to go that route, but I didn't want to take their money and I thought suing to get the job would just make the entire stay awkward and difficult. So I just walked away from it. Fortunately I got, and took, a better offer shortly after - unfortunately not at a place where I had buddies.
– Aaron
5 hours ago
add a comment |
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12 Answers
12
active
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votes
12 Answers
12
active
oldest
votes
active
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votes
Why didn't they say you didn't have enough experience earlier in the process?
Because it isn't true.
You had enough experience going in, but you didn't get the job. Now they need to give you a reason why they chose the successful candidate and not you, and that candidate has more experience than you. So now, compared to the successful candidate, you don't have enough experience.
Of course, that may have nothing to do with why they really chose the other candidate. It's post-hoc justifications all the way down.
31
This is by far the most likely explanation.
– BittermanAndy
8 hours ago
1
I once applied for an entry-level job that had a high school class requirement. With my bachelor's degree in that particular field, I thought that I had the position in the bag, especially after a great interview. A week later they informed me that I didn't get the job. After pressing, the interviewer explained that they went with someone with a master's.
– Lux Claridge
7 hours ago
1
This is a great answer, but could you address the actual question asked by the OP? "My question is - is it ethical(for lack of a better word) for someone to speak to the manager when in similar situation? If yes, how should one approach?"
– David K
6 hours ago
Already addressed by the other upvoted answers, I think, David K
– Rupert Morrish
6 hours ago
This is very true and two can tango. When similar things have happened to me and feel bitter about it, I just imagine the real reason is b/c they were incompetent and pissed off their investors. Is it true? NO. Does it need to be true? NO. The important thing is to take care of the moral injury and move on.
– emory
2 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
Why didn't they say you didn't have enough experience earlier in the process?
Because it isn't true.
You had enough experience going in, but you didn't get the job. Now they need to give you a reason why they chose the successful candidate and not you, and that candidate has more experience than you. So now, compared to the successful candidate, you don't have enough experience.
Of course, that may have nothing to do with why they really chose the other candidate. It's post-hoc justifications all the way down.
31
This is by far the most likely explanation.
– BittermanAndy
8 hours ago
1
I once applied for an entry-level job that had a high school class requirement. With my bachelor's degree in that particular field, I thought that I had the position in the bag, especially after a great interview. A week later they informed me that I didn't get the job. After pressing, the interviewer explained that they went with someone with a master's.
– Lux Claridge
7 hours ago
1
This is a great answer, but could you address the actual question asked by the OP? "My question is - is it ethical(for lack of a better word) for someone to speak to the manager when in similar situation? If yes, how should one approach?"
– David K
6 hours ago
Already addressed by the other upvoted answers, I think, David K
– Rupert Morrish
6 hours ago
This is very true and two can tango. When similar things have happened to me and feel bitter about it, I just imagine the real reason is b/c they were incompetent and pissed off their investors. Is it true? NO. Does it need to be true? NO. The important thing is to take care of the moral injury and move on.
– emory
2 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
Why didn't they say you didn't have enough experience earlier in the process?
Because it isn't true.
You had enough experience going in, but you didn't get the job. Now they need to give you a reason why they chose the successful candidate and not you, and that candidate has more experience than you. So now, compared to the successful candidate, you don't have enough experience.
Of course, that may have nothing to do with why they really chose the other candidate. It's post-hoc justifications all the way down.
Why didn't they say you didn't have enough experience earlier in the process?
Because it isn't true.
You had enough experience going in, but you didn't get the job. Now they need to give you a reason why they chose the successful candidate and not you, and that candidate has more experience than you. So now, compared to the successful candidate, you don't have enough experience.
Of course, that may have nothing to do with why they really chose the other candidate. It's post-hoc justifications all the way down.
answered 8 hours ago
Rupert MorrishRupert Morrish
790410
790410
31
This is by far the most likely explanation.
– BittermanAndy
8 hours ago
1
I once applied for an entry-level job that had a high school class requirement. With my bachelor's degree in that particular field, I thought that I had the position in the bag, especially after a great interview. A week later they informed me that I didn't get the job. After pressing, the interviewer explained that they went with someone with a master's.
– Lux Claridge
7 hours ago
1
This is a great answer, but could you address the actual question asked by the OP? "My question is - is it ethical(for lack of a better word) for someone to speak to the manager when in similar situation? If yes, how should one approach?"
– David K
6 hours ago
Already addressed by the other upvoted answers, I think, David K
– Rupert Morrish
6 hours ago
This is very true and two can tango. When similar things have happened to me and feel bitter about it, I just imagine the real reason is b/c they were incompetent and pissed off their investors. Is it true? NO. Does it need to be true? NO. The important thing is to take care of the moral injury and move on.
– emory
2 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
31
This is by far the most likely explanation.
– BittermanAndy
8 hours ago
1
I once applied for an entry-level job that had a high school class requirement. With my bachelor's degree in that particular field, I thought that I had the position in the bag, especially after a great interview. A week later they informed me that I didn't get the job. After pressing, the interviewer explained that they went with someone with a master's.
– Lux Claridge
7 hours ago
1
This is a great answer, but could you address the actual question asked by the OP? "My question is - is it ethical(for lack of a better word) for someone to speak to the manager when in similar situation? If yes, how should one approach?"
– David K
6 hours ago
Already addressed by the other upvoted answers, I think, David K
– Rupert Morrish
6 hours ago
This is very true and two can tango. When similar things have happened to me and feel bitter about it, I just imagine the real reason is b/c they were incompetent and pissed off their investors. Is it true? NO. Does it need to be true? NO. The important thing is to take care of the moral injury and move on.
– emory
2 hours ago
31
31
This is by far the most likely explanation.
– BittermanAndy
8 hours ago
This is by far the most likely explanation.
– BittermanAndy
8 hours ago
1
1
I once applied for an entry-level job that had a high school class requirement. With my bachelor's degree in that particular field, I thought that I had the position in the bag, especially after a great interview. A week later they informed me that I didn't get the job. After pressing, the interviewer explained that they went with someone with a master's.
– Lux Claridge
7 hours ago
I once applied for an entry-level job that had a high school class requirement. With my bachelor's degree in that particular field, I thought that I had the position in the bag, especially after a great interview. A week later they informed me that I didn't get the job. After pressing, the interviewer explained that they went with someone with a master's.
– Lux Claridge
7 hours ago
1
1
This is a great answer, but could you address the actual question asked by the OP? "My question is - is it ethical(for lack of a better word) for someone to speak to the manager when in similar situation? If yes, how should one approach?"
– David K
6 hours ago
This is a great answer, but could you address the actual question asked by the OP? "My question is - is it ethical(for lack of a better word) for someone to speak to the manager when in similar situation? If yes, how should one approach?"
– David K
6 hours ago
Already addressed by the other upvoted answers, I think, David K
– Rupert Morrish
6 hours ago
Already addressed by the other upvoted answers, I think, David K
– Rupert Morrish
6 hours ago
This is very true and two can tango. When similar things have happened to me and feel bitter about it, I just imagine the real reason is b/c they were incompetent and pissed off their investors. Is it true? NO. Does it need to be true? NO. The important thing is to take care of the moral injury and move on.
– emory
2 hours ago
This is very true and two can tango. When similar things have happened to me and feel bitter about it, I just imagine the real reason is b/c they were incompetent and pissed off their investors. Is it true? NO. Does it need to be true? NO. The important thing is to take care of the moral injury and move on.
– emory
2 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
I would not say it is unethical, but you will not gain anything from it by speaking to the manager.
As @Kozaky mentioned, it is possible they want their average years of experience to be higher. Is it smart? Probably not, since experience does not necessarily equal competence.
Also, though, is the fact that you may want to apply at this company in the future, and complaining about something like this will likely put you on a "blacklist" of some sort.
Understandly, it is not fair to you. However, there is little recourse in this matter. Get your frustration out, and move on. That's the best you can do.
New contributor
add a comment |
I would not say it is unethical, but you will not gain anything from it by speaking to the manager.
As @Kozaky mentioned, it is possible they want their average years of experience to be higher. Is it smart? Probably not, since experience does not necessarily equal competence.
Also, though, is the fact that you may want to apply at this company in the future, and complaining about something like this will likely put you on a "blacklist" of some sort.
Understandly, it is not fair to you. However, there is little recourse in this matter. Get your frustration out, and move on. That's the best you can do.
New contributor
add a comment |
I would not say it is unethical, but you will not gain anything from it by speaking to the manager.
As @Kozaky mentioned, it is possible they want their average years of experience to be higher. Is it smart? Probably not, since experience does not necessarily equal competence.
Also, though, is the fact that you may want to apply at this company in the future, and complaining about something like this will likely put you on a "blacklist" of some sort.
Understandly, it is not fair to you. However, there is little recourse in this matter. Get your frustration out, and move on. That's the best you can do.
New contributor
I would not say it is unethical, but you will not gain anything from it by speaking to the manager.
As @Kozaky mentioned, it is possible they want their average years of experience to be higher. Is it smart? Probably not, since experience does not necessarily equal competence.
Also, though, is the fact that you may want to apply at this company in the future, and complaining about something like this will likely put you on a "blacklist" of some sort.
Understandly, it is not fair to you. However, there is little recourse in this matter. Get your frustration out, and move on. That's the best you can do.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 13 hours ago
SagarSagar
3015
3015
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment |
add a comment |
As many have already pointed out - it isn't necessarily 'unethical,' but you don't stand to gain much from having that conversation. You got a reason for the decision (even if that answer is vague or unsatisfactory) which is more than most applicants get.
That being said, this is an incredibly frustrating situation (speaking from experience).
If I may offer some unsolicited advice: I think you should view this as their loss. It can be difficult to see the positive side of this situation in light of the outcome, but you should celebrate the fact that you did very well in the interview and lost the opportunity for reasons beyond your present control.
Sometimes hiring managers have a change of heart down the road (especially if the 'experienced' candidate isn't working out) and this company may in fact reach out to you months or even years later (perhaps for a different, yet similar role). If you're doing this well in interviews you will definitely have a job by then, but they may present you with a really attractive offer. If that does happen, you need to consider why they turned you down in the first place. Don't get caught up working with a group of people that value perception over reality!
It's possible you dodged a bullet here. Take a few days off from the job hunt if you can afford it and realign yourself. Best of luck!
New contributor
Assuming that you do want to work for this "very prominent software company", you could send the hiring manager with a CC to HR thanking them for the opportunity. Politely express that you are disappointed that you didn't meet all requirements and that you wish to be considered for any future positions where you would be an even better fit. Yes, hard to write, but it is always better to take the high road. Of course, all of the foregoing assumes that you DO WANT to work there. Which judging by the hurt you feel, could be the case.
– CyberFonic
3 hours ago
add a comment |
As many have already pointed out - it isn't necessarily 'unethical,' but you don't stand to gain much from having that conversation. You got a reason for the decision (even if that answer is vague or unsatisfactory) which is more than most applicants get.
That being said, this is an incredibly frustrating situation (speaking from experience).
If I may offer some unsolicited advice: I think you should view this as their loss. It can be difficult to see the positive side of this situation in light of the outcome, but you should celebrate the fact that you did very well in the interview and lost the opportunity for reasons beyond your present control.
Sometimes hiring managers have a change of heart down the road (especially if the 'experienced' candidate isn't working out) and this company may in fact reach out to you months or even years later (perhaps for a different, yet similar role). If you're doing this well in interviews you will definitely have a job by then, but they may present you with a really attractive offer. If that does happen, you need to consider why they turned you down in the first place. Don't get caught up working with a group of people that value perception over reality!
It's possible you dodged a bullet here. Take a few days off from the job hunt if you can afford it and realign yourself. Best of luck!
New contributor
Assuming that you do want to work for this "very prominent software company", you could send the hiring manager with a CC to HR thanking them for the opportunity. Politely express that you are disappointed that you didn't meet all requirements and that you wish to be considered for any future positions where you would be an even better fit. Yes, hard to write, but it is always better to take the high road. Of course, all of the foregoing assumes that you DO WANT to work there. Which judging by the hurt you feel, could be the case.
– CyberFonic
3 hours ago
add a comment |
As many have already pointed out - it isn't necessarily 'unethical,' but you don't stand to gain much from having that conversation. You got a reason for the decision (even if that answer is vague or unsatisfactory) which is more than most applicants get.
That being said, this is an incredibly frustrating situation (speaking from experience).
If I may offer some unsolicited advice: I think you should view this as their loss. It can be difficult to see the positive side of this situation in light of the outcome, but you should celebrate the fact that you did very well in the interview and lost the opportunity for reasons beyond your present control.
Sometimes hiring managers have a change of heart down the road (especially if the 'experienced' candidate isn't working out) and this company may in fact reach out to you months or even years later (perhaps for a different, yet similar role). If you're doing this well in interviews you will definitely have a job by then, but they may present you with a really attractive offer. If that does happen, you need to consider why they turned you down in the first place. Don't get caught up working with a group of people that value perception over reality!
It's possible you dodged a bullet here. Take a few days off from the job hunt if you can afford it and realign yourself. Best of luck!
New contributor
As many have already pointed out - it isn't necessarily 'unethical,' but you don't stand to gain much from having that conversation. You got a reason for the decision (even if that answer is vague or unsatisfactory) which is more than most applicants get.
That being said, this is an incredibly frustrating situation (speaking from experience).
If I may offer some unsolicited advice: I think you should view this as their loss. It can be difficult to see the positive side of this situation in light of the outcome, but you should celebrate the fact that you did very well in the interview and lost the opportunity for reasons beyond your present control.
Sometimes hiring managers have a change of heart down the road (especially if the 'experienced' candidate isn't working out) and this company may in fact reach out to you months or even years later (perhaps for a different, yet similar role). If you're doing this well in interviews you will definitely have a job by then, but they may present you with a really attractive offer. If that does happen, you need to consider why they turned you down in the first place. Don't get caught up working with a group of people that value perception over reality!
It's possible you dodged a bullet here. Take a few days off from the job hunt if you can afford it and realign yourself. Best of luck!
New contributor
edited 12 hours ago
New contributor
answered 12 hours ago
the-hanged-manthe-hanged-man
612
612
New contributor
New contributor
Assuming that you do want to work for this "very prominent software company", you could send the hiring manager with a CC to HR thanking them for the opportunity. Politely express that you are disappointed that you didn't meet all requirements and that you wish to be considered for any future positions where you would be an even better fit. Yes, hard to write, but it is always better to take the high road. Of course, all of the foregoing assumes that you DO WANT to work there. Which judging by the hurt you feel, could be the case.
– CyberFonic
3 hours ago
add a comment |
Assuming that you do want to work for this "very prominent software company", you could send the hiring manager with a CC to HR thanking them for the opportunity. Politely express that you are disappointed that you didn't meet all requirements and that you wish to be considered for any future positions where you would be an even better fit. Yes, hard to write, but it is always better to take the high road. Of course, all of the foregoing assumes that you DO WANT to work there. Which judging by the hurt you feel, could be the case.
– CyberFonic
3 hours ago
Assuming that you do want to work for this "very prominent software company", you could send the hiring manager with a CC to HR thanking them for the opportunity. Politely express that you are disappointed that you didn't meet all requirements and that you wish to be considered for any future positions where you would be an even better fit. Yes, hard to write, but it is always better to take the high road. Of course, all of the foregoing assumes that you DO WANT to work there. Which judging by the hurt you feel, could be the case.
– CyberFonic
3 hours ago
Assuming that you do want to work for this "very prominent software company", you could send the hiring manager with a CC to HR thanking them for the opportunity. Politely express that you are disappointed that you didn't meet all requirements and that you wish to be considered for any future positions where you would be an even better fit. Yes, hard to write, but it is always better to take the high road. Of course, all of the foregoing assumes that you DO WANT to work there. Which judging by the hurt you feel, could be the case.
– CyberFonic
3 hours ago
add a comment |
It's not unethical, in the legal sense, as in you really have no method of recourse against them for any reason. You also probably shouldn't complain to the manager, as it's probably not their call as to what the company is hiring for, especially if it's a large company (large companies often have "hiring pools" from which managers can take candidates they like; it's very rare that a manager in a large company will specifically hire for a specific position, at least not until a placement stage which happens after the offer stage).
If you would like to complain to someone, you should complain to the recruiter who introduced you to that company, especially if that recruiter is a 3rd party recruiter (not someone internal to the company). Speaking specifically about 3rd party recruiters, it's important to let a 3rd party recruiter know for 2 reasons:
1) Recruiters get paid when candidates get placed, usually as a percentage of that candidate's salary. If the recruiter does a bunch of work but the company is stingy and won't let the recruiter place a candidate, then the recruiter is wasting their time. Recruiters don't want to waste their time, so they should be made to know if the company is being stingy.
2) Client behaviour can impact a recruiter's image. For example, if I talk to a recruiter and tell them my background is Java backend, and they send me to a company who wants to hire Ruby frontend developers, I'm going to be pretty mad at that recruiter for wasting my time sending me to a company that wasn't a good fit. This is a simple obvious example, but the same holds in your case; the recruiter sent you to a company that was not looking for someone with your qualifications. This looks bad on the recruiter. Now, hopefully, the recruiter didn't do this maliciously, and it's likely there was a simple miscommunication between the recruiter and the company. However, that doesn't change the fact that this is what they did, and this looks bad on their image as a recruiter. If the recruiter wants to maintain their image and reputation, they should not deal with companies who miscommunicate their expectations and waste applicants' time (and recruiter's time placing those applicants!). So once again, the recruiter should be made to know if this is going on.
Internal recruiters have neither of these concerns, so if you're dealing with an internal recruiter these statements do not apply. As such, you can do whatever you feel is right.
The rest more or less depends on how much you would like to pursue this company in the future. Do you believe this is a miscommunication, or do you believe this is a symptom of a systemic problem in the company as a whole? If you believe you would like to pursue this company in the future, then you should probably just drop it; you failed the interview for whatever reason (in this case by no fault of your own, just to be clear; the company is 100% in the wrong here, but that doesn't change the fact that you didn't get an offer), try again next time. If you feel like this has left such a bad taste in your mouth that you are no longer interested in the company, then feel free to say whatever you like to whomever you like; if you consider their bridge burned with you, then you have no problem burning your bridge with them.
In either case, I would write a review on a job posting review board (if the company is North American then my recommendation would be Glassdoor; if not, then use whatever is popular for your locale) detailing your experience. Most of these boards are anonymous so the company wouldn't know it was you, and at the same time you will be warning people of these sorts of experiences. I know that I personally look up every company I interview with on Glassdoor before I consider applying/interviewing there, so as much as you may think "nobody reads that crap what am I really wasting my time on?", there are people who really do read it and listen to what people say there.
It was a third party in my case. Also I looked up and the job posting did say 3 or more years. But I had a conversation about this with the HR and the manager as well, and the did say it was ok and we proceeded to the next round.Thank you for your point on third party recruiter.
– labmat
10 hours ago
What is there to "warn" other people about regarding posting this experience on a job posting review board? They interviewed the candidate and didn't want them.
– dwizum
8 hours ago
@dwizum They wasted almost a month of the candidate's time on something that they could have found in 5 seconds by actually reading the candidate's resume. Not even reading the resume is the utmost of disrespect; it's like going to interview at a company without reading the company's website or the job description, either of which would likely end the interview immediately.
– Ertai87
8 hours ago
add a comment |
It's not unethical, in the legal sense, as in you really have no method of recourse against them for any reason. You also probably shouldn't complain to the manager, as it's probably not their call as to what the company is hiring for, especially if it's a large company (large companies often have "hiring pools" from which managers can take candidates they like; it's very rare that a manager in a large company will specifically hire for a specific position, at least not until a placement stage which happens after the offer stage).
If you would like to complain to someone, you should complain to the recruiter who introduced you to that company, especially if that recruiter is a 3rd party recruiter (not someone internal to the company). Speaking specifically about 3rd party recruiters, it's important to let a 3rd party recruiter know for 2 reasons:
1) Recruiters get paid when candidates get placed, usually as a percentage of that candidate's salary. If the recruiter does a bunch of work but the company is stingy and won't let the recruiter place a candidate, then the recruiter is wasting their time. Recruiters don't want to waste their time, so they should be made to know if the company is being stingy.
2) Client behaviour can impact a recruiter's image. For example, if I talk to a recruiter and tell them my background is Java backend, and they send me to a company who wants to hire Ruby frontend developers, I'm going to be pretty mad at that recruiter for wasting my time sending me to a company that wasn't a good fit. This is a simple obvious example, but the same holds in your case; the recruiter sent you to a company that was not looking for someone with your qualifications. This looks bad on the recruiter. Now, hopefully, the recruiter didn't do this maliciously, and it's likely there was a simple miscommunication between the recruiter and the company. However, that doesn't change the fact that this is what they did, and this looks bad on their image as a recruiter. If the recruiter wants to maintain their image and reputation, they should not deal with companies who miscommunicate their expectations and waste applicants' time (and recruiter's time placing those applicants!). So once again, the recruiter should be made to know if this is going on.
Internal recruiters have neither of these concerns, so if you're dealing with an internal recruiter these statements do not apply. As such, you can do whatever you feel is right.
The rest more or less depends on how much you would like to pursue this company in the future. Do you believe this is a miscommunication, or do you believe this is a symptom of a systemic problem in the company as a whole? If you believe you would like to pursue this company in the future, then you should probably just drop it; you failed the interview for whatever reason (in this case by no fault of your own, just to be clear; the company is 100% in the wrong here, but that doesn't change the fact that you didn't get an offer), try again next time. If you feel like this has left such a bad taste in your mouth that you are no longer interested in the company, then feel free to say whatever you like to whomever you like; if you consider their bridge burned with you, then you have no problem burning your bridge with them.
In either case, I would write a review on a job posting review board (if the company is North American then my recommendation would be Glassdoor; if not, then use whatever is popular for your locale) detailing your experience. Most of these boards are anonymous so the company wouldn't know it was you, and at the same time you will be warning people of these sorts of experiences. I know that I personally look up every company I interview with on Glassdoor before I consider applying/interviewing there, so as much as you may think "nobody reads that crap what am I really wasting my time on?", there are people who really do read it and listen to what people say there.
It was a third party in my case. Also I looked up and the job posting did say 3 or more years. But I had a conversation about this with the HR and the manager as well, and the did say it was ok and we proceeded to the next round.Thank you for your point on third party recruiter.
– labmat
10 hours ago
What is there to "warn" other people about regarding posting this experience on a job posting review board? They interviewed the candidate and didn't want them.
– dwizum
8 hours ago
@dwizum They wasted almost a month of the candidate's time on something that they could have found in 5 seconds by actually reading the candidate's resume. Not even reading the resume is the utmost of disrespect; it's like going to interview at a company without reading the company's website or the job description, either of which would likely end the interview immediately.
– Ertai87
8 hours ago
add a comment |
It's not unethical, in the legal sense, as in you really have no method of recourse against them for any reason. You also probably shouldn't complain to the manager, as it's probably not their call as to what the company is hiring for, especially if it's a large company (large companies often have "hiring pools" from which managers can take candidates they like; it's very rare that a manager in a large company will specifically hire for a specific position, at least not until a placement stage which happens after the offer stage).
If you would like to complain to someone, you should complain to the recruiter who introduced you to that company, especially if that recruiter is a 3rd party recruiter (not someone internal to the company). Speaking specifically about 3rd party recruiters, it's important to let a 3rd party recruiter know for 2 reasons:
1) Recruiters get paid when candidates get placed, usually as a percentage of that candidate's salary. If the recruiter does a bunch of work but the company is stingy and won't let the recruiter place a candidate, then the recruiter is wasting their time. Recruiters don't want to waste their time, so they should be made to know if the company is being stingy.
2) Client behaviour can impact a recruiter's image. For example, if I talk to a recruiter and tell them my background is Java backend, and they send me to a company who wants to hire Ruby frontend developers, I'm going to be pretty mad at that recruiter for wasting my time sending me to a company that wasn't a good fit. This is a simple obvious example, but the same holds in your case; the recruiter sent you to a company that was not looking for someone with your qualifications. This looks bad on the recruiter. Now, hopefully, the recruiter didn't do this maliciously, and it's likely there was a simple miscommunication between the recruiter and the company. However, that doesn't change the fact that this is what they did, and this looks bad on their image as a recruiter. If the recruiter wants to maintain their image and reputation, they should not deal with companies who miscommunicate their expectations and waste applicants' time (and recruiter's time placing those applicants!). So once again, the recruiter should be made to know if this is going on.
Internal recruiters have neither of these concerns, so if you're dealing with an internal recruiter these statements do not apply. As such, you can do whatever you feel is right.
The rest more or less depends on how much you would like to pursue this company in the future. Do you believe this is a miscommunication, or do you believe this is a symptom of a systemic problem in the company as a whole? If you believe you would like to pursue this company in the future, then you should probably just drop it; you failed the interview for whatever reason (in this case by no fault of your own, just to be clear; the company is 100% in the wrong here, but that doesn't change the fact that you didn't get an offer), try again next time. If you feel like this has left such a bad taste in your mouth that you are no longer interested in the company, then feel free to say whatever you like to whomever you like; if you consider their bridge burned with you, then you have no problem burning your bridge with them.
In either case, I would write a review on a job posting review board (if the company is North American then my recommendation would be Glassdoor; if not, then use whatever is popular for your locale) detailing your experience. Most of these boards are anonymous so the company wouldn't know it was you, and at the same time you will be warning people of these sorts of experiences. I know that I personally look up every company I interview with on Glassdoor before I consider applying/interviewing there, so as much as you may think "nobody reads that crap what am I really wasting my time on?", there are people who really do read it and listen to what people say there.
It's not unethical, in the legal sense, as in you really have no method of recourse against them for any reason. You also probably shouldn't complain to the manager, as it's probably not their call as to what the company is hiring for, especially if it's a large company (large companies often have "hiring pools" from which managers can take candidates they like; it's very rare that a manager in a large company will specifically hire for a specific position, at least not until a placement stage which happens after the offer stage).
If you would like to complain to someone, you should complain to the recruiter who introduced you to that company, especially if that recruiter is a 3rd party recruiter (not someone internal to the company). Speaking specifically about 3rd party recruiters, it's important to let a 3rd party recruiter know for 2 reasons:
1) Recruiters get paid when candidates get placed, usually as a percentage of that candidate's salary. If the recruiter does a bunch of work but the company is stingy and won't let the recruiter place a candidate, then the recruiter is wasting their time. Recruiters don't want to waste their time, so they should be made to know if the company is being stingy.
2) Client behaviour can impact a recruiter's image. For example, if I talk to a recruiter and tell them my background is Java backend, and they send me to a company who wants to hire Ruby frontend developers, I'm going to be pretty mad at that recruiter for wasting my time sending me to a company that wasn't a good fit. This is a simple obvious example, but the same holds in your case; the recruiter sent you to a company that was not looking for someone with your qualifications. This looks bad on the recruiter. Now, hopefully, the recruiter didn't do this maliciously, and it's likely there was a simple miscommunication between the recruiter and the company. However, that doesn't change the fact that this is what they did, and this looks bad on their image as a recruiter. If the recruiter wants to maintain their image and reputation, they should not deal with companies who miscommunicate their expectations and waste applicants' time (and recruiter's time placing those applicants!). So once again, the recruiter should be made to know if this is going on.
Internal recruiters have neither of these concerns, so if you're dealing with an internal recruiter these statements do not apply. As such, you can do whatever you feel is right.
The rest more or less depends on how much you would like to pursue this company in the future. Do you believe this is a miscommunication, or do you believe this is a symptom of a systemic problem in the company as a whole? If you believe you would like to pursue this company in the future, then you should probably just drop it; you failed the interview for whatever reason (in this case by no fault of your own, just to be clear; the company is 100% in the wrong here, but that doesn't change the fact that you didn't get an offer), try again next time. If you feel like this has left such a bad taste in your mouth that you are no longer interested in the company, then feel free to say whatever you like to whomever you like; if you consider their bridge burned with you, then you have no problem burning your bridge with them.
In either case, I would write a review on a job posting review board (if the company is North American then my recommendation would be Glassdoor; if not, then use whatever is popular for your locale) detailing your experience. Most of these boards are anonymous so the company wouldn't know it was you, and at the same time you will be warning people of these sorts of experiences. I know that I personally look up every company I interview with on Glassdoor before I consider applying/interviewing there, so as much as you may think "nobody reads that crap what am I really wasting my time on?", there are people who really do read it and listen to what people say there.
edited 10 hours ago
answered 11 hours ago
Ertai87Ertai87
10.1k21128
10.1k21128
It was a third party in my case. Also I looked up and the job posting did say 3 or more years. But I had a conversation about this with the HR and the manager as well, and the did say it was ok and we proceeded to the next round.Thank you for your point on third party recruiter.
– labmat
10 hours ago
What is there to "warn" other people about regarding posting this experience on a job posting review board? They interviewed the candidate and didn't want them.
– dwizum
8 hours ago
@dwizum They wasted almost a month of the candidate's time on something that they could have found in 5 seconds by actually reading the candidate's resume. Not even reading the resume is the utmost of disrespect; it's like going to interview at a company without reading the company's website or the job description, either of which would likely end the interview immediately.
– Ertai87
8 hours ago
add a comment |
It was a third party in my case. Also I looked up and the job posting did say 3 or more years. But I had a conversation about this with the HR and the manager as well, and the did say it was ok and we proceeded to the next round.Thank you for your point on third party recruiter.
– labmat
10 hours ago
What is there to "warn" other people about regarding posting this experience on a job posting review board? They interviewed the candidate and didn't want them.
– dwizum
8 hours ago
@dwizum They wasted almost a month of the candidate's time on something that they could have found in 5 seconds by actually reading the candidate's resume. Not even reading the resume is the utmost of disrespect; it's like going to interview at a company without reading the company's website or the job description, either of which would likely end the interview immediately.
– Ertai87
8 hours ago
It was a third party in my case. Also I looked up and the job posting did say 3 or more years. But I had a conversation about this with the HR and the manager as well, and the did say it was ok and we proceeded to the next round.Thank you for your point on third party recruiter.
– labmat
10 hours ago
It was a third party in my case. Also I looked up and the job posting did say 3 or more years. But I had a conversation about this with the HR and the manager as well, and the did say it was ok and we proceeded to the next round.Thank you for your point on third party recruiter.
– labmat
10 hours ago
What is there to "warn" other people about regarding posting this experience on a job posting review board? They interviewed the candidate and didn't want them.
– dwizum
8 hours ago
What is there to "warn" other people about regarding posting this experience on a job posting review board? They interviewed the candidate and didn't want them.
– dwizum
8 hours ago
@dwizum They wasted almost a month of the candidate's time on something that they could have found in 5 seconds by actually reading the candidate's resume. Not even reading the resume is the utmost of disrespect; it's like going to interview at a company without reading the company's website or the job description, either of which would likely end the interview immediately.
– Ertai87
8 hours ago
@dwizum They wasted almost a month of the candidate's time on something that they could have found in 5 seconds by actually reading the candidate's resume. Not even reading the resume is the utmost of disrespect; it's like going to interview at a company without reading the company's website or the job description, either of which would likely end the interview immediately.
– Ertai87
8 hours ago
add a comment |
No, it wouldn't be unethical, but it would be a total waste of time.
This was a jerk move on their part, and IMO, they screened themselves out of the running. Don't waste a moment's time with them. The interview is the very best you will ever see the company. If they're bad in the interview, they will be worse to work for.
add a comment |
No, it wouldn't be unethical, but it would be a total waste of time.
This was a jerk move on their part, and IMO, they screened themselves out of the running. Don't waste a moment's time with them. The interview is the very best you will ever see the company. If they're bad in the interview, they will be worse to work for.
add a comment |
No, it wouldn't be unethical, but it would be a total waste of time.
This was a jerk move on their part, and IMO, they screened themselves out of the running. Don't waste a moment's time with them. The interview is the very best you will ever see the company. If they're bad in the interview, they will be worse to work for.
No, it wouldn't be unethical, but it would be a total waste of time.
This was a jerk move on their part, and IMO, they screened themselves out of the running. Don't waste a moment's time with them. The interview is the very best you will ever see the company. If they're bad in the interview, they will be worse to work for.
answered 11 hours ago
Richard URichard U
99.8k73270399
99.8k73270399
add a comment |
add a comment |
Like others have said, it's best to move on. Pretend it never happened, and get it out of your system right away. Forget it, clear your mind, and move onto the next (better) one, but do keep in mind that it could happen again, too, so keep your mind prepared.
Maybe it'll make you feel better knowing my story (and I also need to get this out - because it hurts).
I was out of work for 4+ months (trusted someone, and they broke my trust very badly..), and wife was 6-7 months pregnant. Had applied to countless places, but even with years of experience, Masters degree, and many personal projects, usual reply (if I got any) was "background doesn't match".
Finally got skype interview setup for a company in NY. Did great in that. Got 2nd skype setup, did great in that, and got to coding challenge. Started coding at 7am in the morning. Had to take wife to doc the same day, so I took my laptop to hospital, sat on floor in hallway and coded the exercise. It was a very large coding exercise, and ended up working on it, and finishing at 12:30 that night (yup, night!) They reviewed it, loved it, and yet another skype with engineers was setup, and they approved/liked solution. Got invited for in-person at their office in NY. Paid for hotel+flight with my money (got reimbursed, see below). Flew 5 hours to NY. Spent night in hotel, and had in-person interview next day. 5-6 people took interview one after another. Engineers and I just clicked - they were super happy (not me saying, but they told me that)! Founder of company asked technical algorithm questions - did very well in that. All that took 5 hours. Came back 5 hour flight. And waited... waited... waited... They said, I'd hear back in 2 days. After 2 weeks, I got a "no". To date, I have no idea why, especially when the email stated something like "I fit perfectly in the culture". I asked to be reimbursed, and it took them 1 month since my return.
It's been months since this, and recently one of their HR person connected me to an outside hiring agency... That to me seems very fishy as well.
That company is a big NO on my list now.
I do have a job now, so at least I'm happy. But yes, these things happen. People say, "don't burn bridges". For people who engage in these types of behaviors, do I want to keep a bridge? Nope.
New contributor
add a comment |
Like others have said, it's best to move on. Pretend it never happened, and get it out of your system right away. Forget it, clear your mind, and move onto the next (better) one, but do keep in mind that it could happen again, too, so keep your mind prepared.
Maybe it'll make you feel better knowing my story (and I also need to get this out - because it hurts).
I was out of work for 4+ months (trusted someone, and they broke my trust very badly..), and wife was 6-7 months pregnant. Had applied to countless places, but even with years of experience, Masters degree, and many personal projects, usual reply (if I got any) was "background doesn't match".
Finally got skype interview setup for a company in NY. Did great in that. Got 2nd skype setup, did great in that, and got to coding challenge. Started coding at 7am in the morning. Had to take wife to doc the same day, so I took my laptop to hospital, sat on floor in hallway and coded the exercise. It was a very large coding exercise, and ended up working on it, and finishing at 12:30 that night (yup, night!) They reviewed it, loved it, and yet another skype with engineers was setup, and they approved/liked solution. Got invited for in-person at their office in NY. Paid for hotel+flight with my money (got reimbursed, see below). Flew 5 hours to NY. Spent night in hotel, and had in-person interview next day. 5-6 people took interview one after another. Engineers and I just clicked - they were super happy (not me saying, but they told me that)! Founder of company asked technical algorithm questions - did very well in that. All that took 5 hours. Came back 5 hour flight. And waited... waited... waited... They said, I'd hear back in 2 days. After 2 weeks, I got a "no". To date, I have no idea why, especially when the email stated something like "I fit perfectly in the culture". I asked to be reimbursed, and it took them 1 month since my return.
It's been months since this, and recently one of their HR person connected me to an outside hiring agency... That to me seems very fishy as well.
That company is a big NO on my list now.
I do have a job now, so at least I'm happy. But yes, these things happen. People say, "don't burn bridges". For people who engage in these types of behaviors, do I want to keep a bridge? Nope.
New contributor
add a comment |
Like others have said, it's best to move on. Pretend it never happened, and get it out of your system right away. Forget it, clear your mind, and move onto the next (better) one, but do keep in mind that it could happen again, too, so keep your mind prepared.
Maybe it'll make you feel better knowing my story (and I also need to get this out - because it hurts).
I was out of work for 4+ months (trusted someone, and they broke my trust very badly..), and wife was 6-7 months pregnant. Had applied to countless places, but even with years of experience, Masters degree, and many personal projects, usual reply (if I got any) was "background doesn't match".
Finally got skype interview setup for a company in NY. Did great in that. Got 2nd skype setup, did great in that, and got to coding challenge. Started coding at 7am in the morning. Had to take wife to doc the same day, so I took my laptop to hospital, sat on floor in hallway and coded the exercise. It was a very large coding exercise, and ended up working on it, and finishing at 12:30 that night (yup, night!) They reviewed it, loved it, and yet another skype with engineers was setup, and they approved/liked solution. Got invited for in-person at their office in NY. Paid for hotel+flight with my money (got reimbursed, see below). Flew 5 hours to NY. Spent night in hotel, and had in-person interview next day. 5-6 people took interview one after another. Engineers and I just clicked - they were super happy (not me saying, but they told me that)! Founder of company asked technical algorithm questions - did very well in that. All that took 5 hours. Came back 5 hour flight. And waited... waited... waited... They said, I'd hear back in 2 days. After 2 weeks, I got a "no". To date, I have no idea why, especially when the email stated something like "I fit perfectly in the culture". I asked to be reimbursed, and it took them 1 month since my return.
It's been months since this, and recently one of their HR person connected me to an outside hiring agency... That to me seems very fishy as well.
That company is a big NO on my list now.
I do have a job now, so at least I'm happy. But yes, these things happen. People say, "don't burn bridges". For people who engage in these types of behaviors, do I want to keep a bridge? Nope.
New contributor
Like others have said, it's best to move on. Pretend it never happened, and get it out of your system right away. Forget it, clear your mind, and move onto the next (better) one, but do keep in mind that it could happen again, too, so keep your mind prepared.
Maybe it'll make you feel better knowing my story (and I also need to get this out - because it hurts).
I was out of work for 4+ months (trusted someone, and they broke my trust very badly..), and wife was 6-7 months pregnant. Had applied to countless places, but even with years of experience, Masters degree, and many personal projects, usual reply (if I got any) was "background doesn't match".
Finally got skype interview setup for a company in NY. Did great in that. Got 2nd skype setup, did great in that, and got to coding challenge. Started coding at 7am in the morning. Had to take wife to doc the same day, so I took my laptop to hospital, sat on floor in hallway and coded the exercise. It was a very large coding exercise, and ended up working on it, and finishing at 12:30 that night (yup, night!) They reviewed it, loved it, and yet another skype with engineers was setup, and they approved/liked solution. Got invited for in-person at their office in NY. Paid for hotel+flight with my money (got reimbursed, see below). Flew 5 hours to NY. Spent night in hotel, and had in-person interview next day. 5-6 people took interview one after another. Engineers and I just clicked - they were super happy (not me saying, but they told me that)! Founder of company asked technical algorithm questions - did very well in that. All that took 5 hours. Came back 5 hour flight. And waited... waited... waited... They said, I'd hear back in 2 days. After 2 weeks, I got a "no". To date, I have no idea why, especially when the email stated something like "I fit perfectly in the culture". I asked to be reimbursed, and it took them 1 month since my return.
It's been months since this, and recently one of their HR person connected me to an outside hiring agency... That to me seems very fishy as well.
That company is a big NO on my list now.
I do have a job now, so at least I'm happy. But yes, these things happen. People say, "don't burn bridges". For people who engage in these types of behaviors, do I want to keep a bridge? Nope.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 11 hours ago
useruser
211
211
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment |
add a comment |
I wouldn't describe it as unethical but it's certainly not advisable. I think you just have to move on from the bad experience by applying for jobs elsewhere. There's nothing to gain from pursuing with that job as the manager has already stated you don't have the years of experience they are looking for so it's a dead end.
I do sympathise, however, as it is incompetent of them to take four interview stages to decide this. Surely they could've just rejected your application due to lack of years experience than to waste your time by inviting you to not one but four interview stages.
Edit: Just realised I've almost repeated what Sagar has said apart from the second paragraph. I'll leave this answer here unless an admin wants to delete it.
add a comment |
I wouldn't describe it as unethical but it's certainly not advisable. I think you just have to move on from the bad experience by applying for jobs elsewhere. There's nothing to gain from pursuing with that job as the manager has already stated you don't have the years of experience they are looking for so it's a dead end.
I do sympathise, however, as it is incompetent of them to take four interview stages to decide this. Surely they could've just rejected your application due to lack of years experience than to waste your time by inviting you to not one but four interview stages.
Edit: Just realised I've almost repeated what Sagar has said apart from the second paragraph. I'll leave this answer here unless an admin wants to delete it.
add a comment |
I wouldn't describe it as unethical but it's certainly not advisable. I think you just have to move on from the bad experience by applying for jobs elsewhere. There's nothing to gain from pursuing with that job as the manager has already stated you don't have the years of experience they are looking for so it's a dead end.
I do sympathise, however, as it is incompetent of them to take four interview stages to decide this. Surely they could've just rejected your application due to lack of years experience than to waste your time by inviting you to not one but four interview stages.
Edit: Just realised I've almost repeated what Sagar has said apart from the second paragraph. I'll leave this answer here unless an admin wants to delete it.
I wouldn't describe it as unethical but it's certainly not advisable. I think you just have to move on from the bad experience by applying for jobs elsewhere. There's nothing to gain from pursuing with that job as the manager has already stated you don't have the years of experience they are looking for so it's a dead end.
I do sympathise, however, as it is incompetent of them to take four interview stages to decide this. Surely they could've just rejected your application due to lack of years experience than to waste your time by inviting you to not one but four interview stages.
Edit: Just realised I've almost repeated what Sagar has said apart from the second paragraph. I'll leave this answer here unless an admin wants to delete it.
answered 12 hours ago
Jamie ButterworthJamie Butterworth
211
211
add a comment |
add a comment |
It is happened to me as well. Doing many interviews for a digital marketing agency after 4 interviews they told me that the Ceo did not agree to hire me because I did not have enough work experience although I rocked in the interviews.
I think you have just to accept it, in this crazy job market anything can happen. What I also learned thanks to another "unfair" experience is about not given anything for grant and keep interviewing with as much as companies you can as long as you have in your hand a goddamn contract.
Especially for new graduate (as me) never had big expectations even though you did the best interview of your life.
Peppe
add a comment |
It is happened to me as well. Doing many interviews for a digital marketing agency after 4 interviews they told me that the Ceo did not agree to hire me because I did not have enough work experience although I rocked in the interviews.
I think you have just to accept it, in this crazy job market anything can happen. What I also learned thanks to another "unfair" experience is about not given anything for grant and keep interviewing with as much as companies you can as long as you have in your hand a goddamn contract.
Especially for new graduate (as me) never had big expectations even though you did the best interview of your life.
Peppe
add a comment |
It is happened to me as well. Doing many interviews for a digital marketing agency after 4 interviews they told me that the Ceo did not agree to hire me because I did not have enough work experience although I rocked in the interviews.
I think you have just to accept it, in this crazy job market anything can happen. What I also learned thanks to another "unfair" experience is about not given anything for grant and keep interviewing with as much as companies you can as long as you have in your hand a goddamn contract.
Especially for new graduate (as me) never had big expectations even though you did the best interview of your life.
Peppe
It is happened to me as well. Doing many interviews for a digital marketing agency after 4 interviews they told me that the Ceo did not agree to hire me because I did not have enough work experience although I rocked in the interviews.
I think you have just to accept it, in this crazy job market anything can happen. What I also learned thanks to another "unfair" experience is about not given anything for grant and keep interviewing with as much as companies you can as long as you have in your hand a goddamn contract.
Especially for new graduate (as me) never had big expectations even though you did the best interview of your life.
Peppe
answered 12 hours ago
peppe Reizanpeppe Reizan
446
446
add a comment |
add a comment |
Hindsight is always 20/20
The right time to bring up your concern over lack of communication was to do it right after they told you that "you have only 2 years of experience and we want more."
Your response should have been:
My apologies if I seem frustrated but could you tell me why I wasn't disqualified sooner? It has been a fairly large time and energy investment on my part to make it through the interviews thus far. If my resume misled you in any way then please let me know because I would like to fix it ASAP.
You can try to call the recruiter or hiring manager and express your concern calmly and politely as I did above.
It is very unlikely that you will get the job for expressing your concerns but at least they may provide some closure such as:
Our apologies, let us clarify by explaining XYZ and why our reasoning was worded in that way.
Or maybe you did bad enough in previous rounds so they are saying that more experience will help you to do better in the future.
add a comment |
Hindsight is always 20/20
The right time to bring up your concern over lack of communication was to do it right after they told you that "you have only 2 years of experience and we want more."
Your response should have been:
My apologies if I seem frustrated but could you tell me why I wasn't disqualified sooner? It has been a fairly large time and energy investment on my part to make it through the interviews thus far. If my resume misled you in any way then please let me know because I would like to fix it ASAP.
You can try to call the recruiter or hiring manager and express your concern calmly and politely as I did above.
It is very unlikely that you will get the job for expressing your concerns but at least they may provide some closure such as:
Our apologies, let us clarify by explaining XYZ and why our reasoning was worded in that way.
Or maybe you did bad enough in previous rounds so they are saying that more experience will help you to do better in the future.
add a comment |
Hindsight is always 20/20
The right time to bring up your concern over lack of communication was to do it right after they told you that "you have only 2 years of experience and we want more."
Your response should have been:
My apologies if I seem frustrated but could you tell me why I wasn't disqualified sooner? It has been a fairly large time and energy investment on my part to make it through the interviews thus far. If my resume misled you in any way then please let me know because I would like to fix it ASAP.
You can try to call the recruiter or hiring manager and express your concern calmly and politely as I did above.
It is very unlikely that you will get the job for expressing your concerns but at least they may provide some closure such as:
Our apologies, let us clarify by explaining XYZ and why our reasoning was worded in that way.
Or maybe you did bad enough in previous rounds so they are saying that more experience will help you to do better in the future.
Hindsight is always 20/20
The right time to bring up your concern over lack of communication was to do it right after they told you that "you have only 2 years of experience and we want more."
Your response should have been:
My apologies if I seem frustrated but could you tell me why I wasn't disqualified sooner? It has been a fairly large time and energy investment on my part to make it through the interviews thus far. If my resume misled you in any way then please let me know because I would like to fix it ASAP.
You can try to call the recruiter or hiring manager and express your concern calmly and politely as I did above.
It is very unlikely that you will get the job for expressing your concerns but at least they may provide some closure such as:
Our apologies, let us clarify by explaining XYZ and why our reasoning was worded in that way.
Or maybe you did bad enough in previous rounds so they are saying that more experience will help you to do better in the future.
edited 9 hours ago
answered 9 hours ago
MonkeyZeusMonkeyZeus
3,91411028
3,91411028
add a comment |
add a comment |
Beyond the sentiments above (ethical but what will you gain?), you mention this is a prominent company.
This is very possibly one of the standard canned answers that legal has defined as a reason to legitimately overlook a candidate. If they toe the company line with such a generic answer, it's easy for every level to stick to the story and any lawsuit stands less of a chance.
About the only angle I see following up benefitting you is if you somehow would catch them in the lie and learn the winning candidate was less experienced and there were some grounds for some type of actionable discrimination. But beyond theoretically possible, I see little way you'd ever prove any of it.
1
wrote "...catch them in the lie and learn the winning candidate was less experienced..." About 5 years ago, I didn't get a job and personally knew the guy who was hired instead. Hiring manager was nice enough to give me advice... but happened to mention that first thing he does is throw applications not meeting minimum degree and years-experience requirements into the trash without a second thought. I told him I knew the hire personally and that he had no degree at all (it required bachelors) and didn't meet their years-experience requested either... he was quite embarrassed.
– Aaron
5 hours ago
add a comment |
Beyond the sentiments above (ethical but what will you gain?), you mention this is a prominent company.
This is very possibly one of the standard canned answers that legal has defined as a reason to legitimately overlook a candidate. If they toe the company line with such a generic answer, it's easy for every level to stick to the story and any lawsuit stands less of a chance.
About the only angle I see following up benefitting you is if you somehow would catch them in the lie and learn the winning candidate was less experienced and there were some grounds for some type of actionable discrimination. But beyond theoretically possible, I see little way you'd ever prove any of it.
1
wrote "...catch them in the lie and learn the winning candidate was less experienced..." About 5 years ago, I didn't get a job and personally knew the guy who was hired instead. Hiring manager was nice enough to give me advice... but happened to mention that first thing he does is throw applications not meeting minimum degree and years-experience requirements into the trash without a second thought. I told him I knew the hire personally and that he had no degree at all (it required bachelors) and didn't meet their years-experience requested either... he was quite embarrassed.
– Aaron
5 hours ago
add a comment |
Beyond the sentiments above (ethical but what will you gain?), you mention this is a prominent company.
This is very possibly one of the standard canned answers that legal has defined as a reason to legitimately overlook a candidate. If they toe the company line with such a generic answer, it's easy for every level to stick to the story and any lawsuit stands less of a chance.
About the only angle I see following up benefitting you is if you somehow would catch them in the lie and learn the winning candidate was less experienced and there were some grounds for some type of actionable discrimination. But beyond theoretically possible, I see little way you'd ever prove any of it.
Beyond the sentiments above (ethical but what will you gain?), you mention this is a prominent company.
This is very possibly one of the standard canned answers that legal has defined as a reason to legitimately overlook a candidate. If they toe the company line with such a generic answer, it's easy for every level to stick to the story and any lawsuit stands less of a chance.
About the only angle I see following up benefitting you is if you somehow would catch them in the lie and learn the winning candidate was less experienced and there were some grounds for some type of actionable discrimination. But beyond theoretically possible, I see little way you'd ever prove any of it.
answered 8 hours ago
John SpiegelJohn Spiegel
48016
48016
1
wrote "...catch them in the lie and learn the winning candidate was less experienced..." About 5 years ago, I didn't get a job and personally knew the guy who was hired instead. Hiring manager was nice enough to give me advice... but happened to mention that first thing he does is throw applications not meeting minimum degree and years-experience requirements into the trash without a second thought. I told him I knew the hire personally and that he had no degree at all (it required bachelors) and didn't meet their years-experience requested either... he was quite embarrassed.
– Aaron
5 hours ago
add a comment |
1
wrote "...catch them in the lie and learn the winning candidate was less experienced..." About 5 years ago, I didn't get a job and personally knew the guy who was hired instead. Hiring manager was nice enough to give me advice... but happened to mention that first thing he does is throw applications not meeting minimum degree and years-experience requirements into the trash without a second thought. I told him I knew the hire personally and that he had no degree at all (it required bachelors) and didn't meet their years-experience requested either... he was quite embarrassed.
– Aaron
5 hours ago
1
1
wrote "...catch them in the lie and learn the winning candidate was less experienced..." About 5 years ago, I didn't get a job and personally knew the guy who was hired instead. Hiring manager was nice enough to give me advice... but happened to mention that first thing he does is throw applications not meeting minimum degree and years-experience requirements into the trash without a second thought. I told him I knew the hire personally and that he had no degree at all (it required bachelors) and didn't meet their years-experience requested either... he was quite embarrassed.
– Aaron
5 hours ago
wrote "...catch them in the lie and learn the winning candidate was less experienced..." About 5 years ago, I didn't get a job and personally knew the guy who was hired instead. Hiring manager was nice enough to give me advice... but happened to mention that first thing he does is throw applications not meeting minimum degree and years-experience requirements into the trash without a second thought. I told him I knew the hire personally and that he had no degree at all (it required bachelors) and didn't meet their years-experience requested either... he was quite embarrassed.
– Aaron
5 hours ago
add a comment |
Is it ethical? I don't see any reason why it would be unethical. But the more important question is, Is it likely to be productive? And the answer to that is, Almost certainly not.
I'm not sure if you mean to call the interviewer to complain or to call his boss. But either way, what do you expect would happen? Do you think you will complain that the interview was unfair and wasted your time, and they'll reply, "Zounds! You're right! We're going to offer you the job after all." No. Most likely they'd shrug and say, "Oh, sorry." At best, you'll just waste more of your time. At worst, you'll annoy them and ruin any chance of getting a job with this company in the future.
And bear in mind, when a company rejects you, the reason they give may or may not be the real reason. When they reject you, they don't want to insult yo. They're not going to say, "We rejected you because we concluded you're an idiot" or "because you smell bad". And they don't want to get into an argument. Often the real reason is vague, like "I have a bad feeling about this guy" or "I don't think he'd fit in our company". But if they say that, then you might say, "Well what's wrong with me? Why don't you think I'd be a good employee?" and they don't have a concrete answer. (And of course if they rejected you for a reason that isn't legal in your jurisdiction, they don't like your race or you let slip something about your politics or religion or whatever that offends them, they're not going to admit that and give you grounds for a lawsuit.) "You don't have enough experience" is simple, doesn't sound nasty, and sounds objective.
Maybe you thought the interviews went very well but they didn't. Yes, getting rejected when you thought the interview went well is very frustrating. But there's little you can do but try to learn from the experience. Think over the interview and see if you can think of things you did wrong. Did you stumble over answers? Say things that in retrospect were not good answers? If so, now you know better for next time. If you can't think of anything you fumbled, well, it was good practice.
Just move on. You gain nothing by complaining except prolonging the aggravation.
add a comment |
Is it ethical? I don't see any reason why it would be unethical. But the more important question is, Is it likely to be productive? And the answer to that is, Almost certainly not.
I'm not sure if you mean to call the interviewer to complain or to call his boss. But either way, what do you expect would happen? Do you think you will complain that the interview was unfair and wasted your time, and they'll reply, "Zounds! You're right! We're going to offer you the job after all." No. Most likely they'd shrug and say, "Oh, sorry." At best, you'll just waste more of your time. At worst, you'll annoy them and ruin any chance of getting a job with this company in the future.
And bear in mind, when a company rejects you, the reason they give may or may not be the real reason. When they reject you, they don't want to insult yo. They're not going to say, "We rejected you because we concluded you're an idiot" or "because you smell bad". And they don't want to get into an argument. Often the real reason is vague, like "I have a bad feeling about this guy" or "I don't think he'd fit in our company". But if they say that, then you might say, "Well what's wrong with me? Why don't you think I'd be a good employee?" and they don't have a concrete answer. (And of course if they rejected you for a reason that isn't legal in your jurisdiction, they don't like your race or you let slip something about your politics or religion or whatever that offends them, they're not going to admit that and give you grounds for a lawsuit.) "You don't have enough experience" is simple, doesn't sound nasty, and sounds objective.
Maybe you thought the interviews went very well but they didn't. Yes, getting rejected when you thought the interview went well is very frustrating. But there's little you can do but try to learn from the experience. Think over the interview and see if you can think of things you did wrong. Did you stumble over answers? Say things that in retrospect were not good answers? If so, now you know better for next time. If you can't think of anything you fumbled, well, it was good practice.
Just move on. You gain nothing by complaining except prolonging the aggravation.
add a comment |
Is it ethical? I don't see any reason why it would be unethical. But the more important question is, Is it likely to be productive? And the answer to that is, Almost certainly not.
I'm not sure if you mean to call the interviewer to complain or to call his boss. But either way, what do you expect would happen? Do you think you will complain that the interview was unfair and wasted your time, and they'll reply, "Zounds! You're right! We're going to offer you the job after all." No. Most likely they'd shrug and say, "Oh, sorry." At best, you'll just waste more of your time. At worst, you'll annoy them and ruin any chance of getting a job with this company in the future.
And bear in mind, when a company rejects you, the reason they give may or may not be the real reason. When they reject you, they don't want to insult yo. They're not going to say, "We rejected you because we concluded you're an idiot" or "because you smell bad". And they don't want to get into an argument. Often the real reason is vague, like "I have a bad feeling about this guy" or "I don't think he'd fit in our company". But if they say that, then you might say, "Well what's wrong with me? Why don't you think I'd be a good employee?" and they don't have a concrete answer. (And of course if they rejected you for a reason that isn't legal in your jurisdiction, they don't like your race or you let slip something about your politics or religion or whatever that offends them, they're not going to admit that and give you grounds for a lawsuit.) "You don't have enough experience" is simple, doesn't sound nasty, and sounds objective.
Maybe you thought the interviews went very well but they didn't. Yes, getting rejected when you thought the interview went well is very frustrating. But there's little you can do but try to learn from the experience. Think over the interview and see if you can think of things you did wrong. Did you stumble over answers? Say things that in retrospect were not good answers? If so, now you know better for next time. If you can't think of anything you fumbled, well, it was good practice.
Just move on. You gain nothing by complaining except prolonging the aggravation.
Is it ethical? I don't see any reason why it would be unethical. But the more important question is, Is it likely to be productive? And the answer to that is, Almost certainly not.
I'm not sure if you mean to call the interviewer to complain or to call his boss. But either way, what do you expect would happen? Do you think you will complain that the interview was unfair and wasted your time, and they'll reply, "Zounds! You're right! We're going to offer you the job after all." No. Most likely they'd shrug and say, "Oh, sorry." At best, you'll just waste more of your time. At worst, you'll annoy them and ruin any chance of getting a job with this company in the future.
And bear in mind, when a company rejects you, the reason they give may or may not be the real reason. When they reject you, they don't want to insult yo. They're not going to say, "We rejected you because we concluded you're an idiot" or "because you smell bad". And they don't want to get into an argument. Often the real reason is vague, like "I have a bad feeling about this guy" or "I don't think he'd fit in our company". But if they say that, then you might say, "Well what's wrong with me? Why don't you think I'd be a good employee?" and they don't have a concrete answer. (And of course if they rejected you for a reason that isn't legal in your jurisdiction, they don't like your race or you let slip something about your politics or religion or whatever that offends them, they're not going to admit that and give you grounds for a lawsuit.) "You don't have enough experience" is simple, doesn't sound nasty, and sounds objective.
Maybe you thought the interviews went very well but they didn't. Yes, getting rejected when you thought the interview went well is very frustrating. But there's little you can do but try to learn from the experience. Think over the interview and see if you can think of things you did wrong. Did you stumble over answers? Say things that in retrospect were not good answers? If so, now you know better for next time. If you can't think of anything you fumbled, well, it was good practice.
Just move on. You gain nothing by complaining except prolonging the aggravation.
answered 12 hours ago
JayJay
9,19011632
9,19011632
add a comment |
add a comment |
The thing you need to bear in mind is that, in reality, there are basically three reasons for rejecting a candidate you've interviewed:
- you were good enough to hire but, sorry, they liked another candidate better;
- you weren't good enough to hire;
- they discovered that terrible thing you were trying to hide from them.
Any other reason they give you is really one of those in disguise. Typically they want to give something that objectively distinguishes you from the person they did hire. So "We wanted more experience" most likely means "We liked another candidate better, and they had more experience than you." Or, if the ad said they wanted somebody with more than two years' experience, it might mean "We thought you might be good enough to hire even though you didn't have the experience we said we wanted but, after interviewing you, we realised you weren't" (reason 2).
You can be fairly sure that it's not that they interviewed your four times and then noticed "Oops, not enough experience. Darn, we shoulda spotted that earlier!" There's nothing to be gained by talking to the company about this. They've made their decision and they've given you the only justification for it that they ever will.
Regarding #3: I once went through a ridiculous number of interviews at one place - I was surprised they did so freaking many, and last one was with the CTO. I wanted to work there because I had several friends and acquaintances who worked there. Before the last one, I nailed every interview and my friends on the inside told me everyone was super impressed and I was their top choice, with their runner up being someone inside looking for a promotion but that he wasn't likely to get it. At last interview with CTO, where he too acted impressed, he ended interview with "Is there anything else [...]
– Aaron
5 hours ago
[...] you'd like to bring up before we part ways?" And I was dumb enough to mention a religious dress code requirement I had at the time. It was no big deal; related to a Jewish tradition, it was just a small band I felt obligated to wear which said "love your neighbor as yourself" on it, and the company I work for now didn't care at all... but apparently that CTO cared a lot. As soon as I mentioned it, and I showed him one so he could see how small and no-big-deal it was, his face, speech, and entire demeanor changed. A buddy told me the CTO blocked me and that he refused to tell anyone why.
– Aaron
5 hours ago
That would probably have been such an easy religious discrimination lawsuit if I had chose to go that route, but I didn't want to take their money and I thought suing to get the job would just make the entire stay awkward and difficult. So I just walked away from it. Fortunately I got, and took, a better offer shortly after - unfortunately not at a place where I had buddies.
– Aaron
5 hours ago
add a comment |
The thing you need to bear in mind is that, in reality, there are basically three reasons for rejecting a candidate you've interviewed:
- you were good enough to hire but, sorry, they liked another candidate better;
- you weren't good enough to hire;
- they discovered that terrible thing you were trying to hide from them.
Any other reason they give you is really one of those in disguise. Typically they want to give something that objectively distinguishes you from the person they did hire. So "We wanted more experience" most likely means "We liked another candidate better, and they had more experience than you." Or, if the ad said they wanted somebody with more than two years' experience, it might mean "We thought you might be good enough to hire even though you didn't have the experience we said we wanted but, after interviewing you, we realised you weren't" (reason 2).
You can be fairly sure that it's not that they interviewed your four times and then noticed "Oops, not enough experience. Darn, we shoulda spotted that earlier!" There's nothing to be gained by talking to the company about this. They've made their decision and they've given you the only justification for it that they ever will.
Regarding #3: I once went through a ridiculous number of interviews at one place - I was surprised they did so freaking many, and last one was with the CTO. I wanted to work there because I had several friends and acquaintances who worked there. Before the last one, I nailed every interview and my friends on the inside told me everyone was super impressed and I was their top choice, with their runner up being someone inside looking for a promotion but that he wasn't likely to get it. At last interview with CTO, where he too acted impressed, he ended interview with "Is there anything else [...]
– Aaron
5 hours ago
[...] you'd like to bring up before we part ways?" And I was dumb enough to mention a religious dress code requirement I had at the time. It was no big deal; related to a Jewish tradition, it was just a small band I felt obligated to wear which said "love your neighbor as yourself" on it, and the company I work for now didn't care at all... but apparently that CTO cared a lot. As soon as I mentioned it, and I showed him one so he could see how small and no-big-deal it was, his face, speech, and entire demeanor changed. A buddy told me the CTO blocked me and that he refused to tell anyone why.
– Aaron
5 hours ago
That would probably have been such an easy religious discrimination lawsuit if I had chose to go that route, but I didn't want to take their money and I thought suing to get the job would just make the entire stay awkward and difficult. So I just walked away from it. Fortunately I got, and took, a better offer shortly after - unfortunately not at a place where I had buddies.
– Aaron
5 hours ago
add a comment |
The thing you need to bear in mind is that, in reality, there are basically three reasons for rejecting a candidate you've interviewed:
- you were good enough to hire but, sorry, they liked another candidate better;
- you weren't good enough to hire;
- they discovered that terrible thing you were trying to hide from them.
Any other reason they give you is really one of those in disguise. Typically they want to give something that objectively distinguishes you from the person they did hire. So "We wanted more experience" most likely means "We liked another candidate better, and they had more experience than you." Or, if the ad said they wanted somebody with more than two years' experience, it might mean "We thought you might be good enough to hire even though you didn't have the experience we said we wanted but, after interviewing you, we realised you weren't" (reason 2).
You can be fairly sure that it's not that they interviewed your four times and then noticed "Oops, not enough experience. Darn, we shoulda spotted that earlier!" There's nothing to be gained by talking to the company about this. They've made their decision and they've given you the only justification for it that they ever will.
The thing you need to bear in mind is that, in reality, there are basically three reasons for rejecting a candidate you've interviewed:
- you were good enough to hire but, sorry, they liked another candidate better;
- you weren't good enough to hire;
- they discovered that terrible thing you were trying to hide from them.
Any other reason they give you is really one of those in disguise. Typically they want to give something that objectively distinguishes you from the person they did hire. So "We wanted more experience" most likely means "We liked another candidate better, and they had more experience than you." Or, if the ad said they wanted somebody with more than two years' experience, it might mean "We thought you might be good enough to hire even though you didn't have the experience we said we wanted but, after interviewing you, we realised you weren't" (reason 2).
You can be fairly sure that it's not that they interviewed your four times and then noticed "Oops, not enough experience. Darn, we shoulda spotted that earlier!" There's nothing to be gained by talking to the company about this. They've made their decision and they've given you the only justification for it that they ever will.
answered 6 hours ago
David RicherbyDavid Richerby
1,4131121
1,4131121
Regarding #3: I once went through a ridiculous number of interviews at one place - I was surprised they did so freaking many, and last one was with the CTO. I wanted to work there because I had several friends and acquaintances who worked there. Before the last one, I nailed every interview and my friends on the inside told me everyone was super impressed and I was their top choice, with their runner up being someone inside looking for a promotion but that he wasn't likely to get it. At last interview with CTO, where he too acted impressed, he ended interview with "Is there anything else [...]
– Aaron
5 hours ago
[...] you'd like to bring up before we part ways?" And I was dumb enough to mention a religious dress code requirement I had at the time. It was no big deal; related to a Jewish tradition, it was just a small band I felt obligated to wear which said "love your neighbor as yourself" on it, and the company I work for now didn't care at all... but apparently that CTO cared a lot. As soon as I mentioned it, and I showed him one so he could see how small and no-big-deal it was, his face, speech, and entire demeanor changed. A buddy told me the CTO blocked me and that he refused to tell anyone why.
– Aaron
5 hours ago
That would probably have been such an easy religious discrimination lawsuit if I had chose to go that route, but I didn't want to take their money and I thought suing to get the job would just make the entire stay awkward and difficult. So I just walked away from it. Fortunately I got, and took, a better offer shortly after - unfortunately not at a place where I had buddies.
– Aaron
5 hours ago
add a comment |
Regarding #3: I once went through a ridiculous number of interviews at one place - I was surprised they did so freaking many, and last one was with the CTO. I wanted to work there because I had several friends and acquaintances who worked there. Before the last one, I nailed every interview and my friends on the inside told me everyone was super impressed and I was their top choice, with their runner up being someone inside looking for a promotion but that he wasn't likely to get it. At last interview with CTO, where he too acted impressed, he ended interview with "Is there anything else [...]
– Aaron
5 hours ago
[...] you'd like to bring up before we part ways?" And I was dumb enough to mention a religious dress code requirement I had at the time. It was no big deal; related to a Jewish tradition, it was just a small band I felt obligated to wear which said "love your neighbor as yourself" on it, and the company I work for now didn't care at all... but apparently that CTO cared a lot. As soon as I mentioned it, and I showed him one so he could see how small and no-big-deal it was, his face, speech, and entire demeanor changed. A buddy told me the CTO blocked me and that he refused to tell anyone why.
– Aaron
5 hours ago
That would probably have been such an easy religious discrimination lawsuit if I had chose to go that route, but I didn't want to take their money and I thought suing to get the job would just make the entire stay awkward and difficult. So I just walked away from it. Fortunately I got, and took, a better offer shortly after - unfortunately not at a place where I had buddies.
– Aaron
5 hours ago
Regarding #3: I once went through a ridiculous number of interviews at one place - I was surprised they did so freaking many, and last one was with the CTO. I wanted to work there because I had several friends and acquaintances who worked there. Before the last one, I nailed every interview and my friends on the inside told me everyone was super impressed and I was their top choice, with their runner up being someone inside looking for a promotion but that he wasn't likely to get it. At last interview with CTO, where he too acted impressed, he ended interview with "Is there anything else [...]
– Aaron
5 hours ago
Regarding #3: I once went through a ridiculous number of interviews at one place - I was surprised they did so freaking many, and last one was with the CTO. I wanted to work there because I had several friends and acquaintances who worked there. Before the last one, I nailed every interview and my friends on the inside told me everyone was super impressed and I was their top choice, with their runner up being someone inside looking for a promotion but that he wasn't likely to get it. At last interview with CTO, where he too acted impressed, he ended interview with "Is there anything else [...]
– Aaron
5 hours ago
[...] you'd like to bring up before we part ways?" And I was dumb enough to mention a religious dress code requirement I had at the time. It was no big deal; related to a Jewish tradition, it was just a small band I felt obligated to wear which said "love your neighbor as yourself" on it, and the company I work for now didn't care at all... but apparently that CTO cared a lot. As soon as I mentioned it, and I showed him one so he could see how small and no-big-deal it was, his face, speech, and entire demeanor changed. A buddy told me the CTO blocked me and that he refused to tell anyone why.
– Aaron
5 hours ago
[...] you'd like to bring up before we part ways?" And I was dumb enough to mention a religious dress code requirement I had at the time. It was no big deal; related to a Jewish tradition, it was just a small band I felt obligated to wear which said "love your neighbor as yourself" on it, and the company I work for now didn't care at all... but apparently that CTO cared a lot. As soon as I mentioned it, and I showed him one so he could see how small and no-big-deal it was, his face, speech, and entire demeanor changed. A buddy told me the CTO blocked me and that he refused to tell anyone why.
– Aaron
5 hours ago
That would probably have been such an easy religious discrimination lawsuit if I had chose to go that route, but I didn't want to take their money and I thought suing to get the job would just make the entire stay awkward and difficult. So I just walked away from it. Fortunately I got, and took, a better offer shortly after - unfortunately not at a place where I had buddies.
– Aaron
5 hours ago
That would probably have been such an easy religious discrimination lawsuit if I had chose to go that route, but I didn't want to take their money and I thought suing to get the job would just make the entire stay awkward and difficult. So I just walked away from it. Fortunately I got, and took, a better offer shortly after - unfortunately not at a place where I had buddies.
– Aaron
5 hours ago
add a comment |
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26
What do you expect to gain by doing this? Clearly the team manager doesn't want you on the team for whatever reason.
– sf02
13 hours ago
2
Are you saying you want to complain to the person who rejected you, or to their boss?
– David K
13 hours ago
28
I'd just like to comment that we may not know the whole picture. Imagine if the hiring manager had another candidate who also made it to the 4th round but had more years of experience. They dropped you and chose them instead. Or any of a bunch of other reasons, which caused them to give that as the reason to not hire you. If you're upset about them wasting your time, consider that they don't want to waste their time either.
– dwizum
11 hours ago
6
This is also a pretty generic catch all, it could be "A more experienced person would have also done x, for problem 1". The hiring manager probably doesn't want to get that specific and gives the more generic catch all response, but it may have more to do with your interview performance than you think.
– Kevin DiTraglia
8 hours ago
7
If it were just your years of experience, they probably would have filtered you out much earlier in the process. So there's probably some reason that they're not willing to tell you. Maybe they were hoping you'd blow them away during the coding tests and it would make up for it, but that didn't happen.
– Barmar
8 hours ago